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Google Antigravity

antigravity.google

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Re: Google Antigravity

#451

Post by CamperBob2 »

shermantanktop wrote: post #444
sorokod wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"junior developers" is a convenient label, it is incorrect but it will take a bit until we come up something that describes entities that: - can write code - tireless - have no aspirations - have no stylistic or architectural preferences - have massive, but at the same time not well defined, body of knowledge - have no intrinsic memories of past interactions. - change in unexpected ways when underlying models change…

- don't learn from what you tell them - don't have career growth that you can feel good about having contributed to - don't have a genuine interest in accomplishment or team goals - have no past and no future. When you change companies, they won't recognize you in the hall. - no ownership over results. If they make a mistake, they won't suffer.

- don't learn from what you tell them

We'll fix that, eventually.

- don't have career growth that you can feel good about having contributed to

Humans are on the verge of building machines that are smarter than we are. I feel pretty goddamned awesome about that. It's what we're supposed to be doing.

- don't have a genuine interest in accomplishment or team goals

Easy to train for, if it turns out to be necessary. I'd always assumed that a competitive drive would be necessary in order to achieve or at least simulate human-level intelligence, but things don't seem to be playing out that way.

- have no past and no future. When you change companies, they won't recognize you in the hall.

Or on the picket line.

- no ownership over results. If they make a mistake, they won't suffer.

Good deal. Less human suffering is usually worth striving for.

Re: Google Antigravity

#452

Post by astrange »

sorokod wrote: post #435
uatec wrote: post #378

"Congratulations, you have been elevated to manager to agents." That's not exactly really where I hoped my career would lead. It's like managing junior developers, but without having nice people to work with.

"junior developers" is a convenient label, it is incorrect but it will take a bit until we come up something that describes entities that: - can write code - tireless - have no aspirations - have no stylistic or architectural preferences - have massive, but at the same time not well defined, body of knowledge - have no intrinsic memories of past interactions. - change in unexpected ways when underlying models change…

You'd also have no intrinsic memory of past interactions if we removed your hippocampus.

Coincidentally, the hippocampus looks like a seahorse (emoji). It's all connected.

Re: Google Antigravity

#453

Post by hmans »

shermantanktop wrote: post #444
sorokod wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"junior developers" is a convenient label, it is incorrect but it will take a bit until we come up something that describes entities that: - can write code - tireless - have no aspirations - have no stylistic or architectural preferences - have massive, but at the same time not well defined, body of knowledge - have no intrinsic memories of past interactions. - change in unexpected ways when underlying models change…

- don't learn from what you tell them - don't have career growth that you can feel good about having contributed to - don't have a genuine interest in accomplishment or team goals - have no past and no future. When you change companies, they won't recognize you in the hall. - no ownership over results. If they make a mistake, they won't suffer.

[dead]

Re: Google Antigravity

#454

Post by BeetleB »

uatec wrote: post #378

"Congratulations, you have been elevated to manager to agents." That's not exactly really where I hoped my career would lead. It's like managing junior developers, but without having nice people to work with.

> It's like managing junior developers, but without having nice people to work with.

Nice? I thought all sycophant LLMs were exceedingly nice.

Re: Google Antigravity

#455

Post by dweinus »

cindori wrote: post #335
jihadjihad wrote: post #51

> Spin up agents to tackle routine tasks that take you out of your flow, such as codebase research, bug fixes, and backlog tasks. The software of the future, where nobody on staff knows how anything is built, no one understands why anything breaks, and cruft multiplies exponentially. But at least we're not taken out of our flow!

[flagged]

This argument warrants introspection for "crusty devs", but also has holes. A compiler is tightly engineered and dependable. I have never had to write assembly because I know that my compiled code 100% represents my abstract code and any functional problems are in my abstract code. That is not true in AI coding. Additionally, AI coding is not just an abstraction over code, but an abstraction over understanding. When my code compiles, I don't need to worry that the compiler misunderstood my intention.

I'm not saying AI is not a useful abstraction, but I am saying that it is not a trustworthy one.

Re: Google Antigravity

#456

Post by supportengineer »

uatec wrote: post #378

"Congratulations, you have been elevated to manager to agents." That's not exactly really where I hoped my career would lead. It's like managing junior developers, but without having nice people to work with.

I'm at one of those companies where we're forced to be in the office.

NO ONE TALKS TO EACH OTHER unless absolutely necessary for work.

We get on Zooms to talk. Even with the person 1 cubicle over.

Re: Google Antigravity

#457

Post by crazygringo »

flatline wrote: post #336
crazygringo wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can ask agents to identify and remove cruft. You can ask an agent why something is breaking -- to hypothesize potential causes and test them for validity. If you don't understand how something is built, you can ask the agent to give you an overview of the architecture and then dive into whatever part you want to explore more. And it's not like any of your criticisms don't apply to human teams. They also let cruft…

Humans are just better at communicating about their process. They will spend hours talking over architectural decisions, implementation issues, writing technical details in commit messages and issue notes, and in this way they not only debug their decisions but socialize knowledge of both the code and the reasons it came to be that way. Communication and collaboration are the real adaptive skills of our species. To t…

> Humans are just better at communicating about their process.

I wish that were true.

In my experience, most of the time they're not doing the things you talk about -- major architectural decisions don't get documented anywhere, commit messages give no "why", and the people who the knowledge got socialized to in unrecorded conversations then left the company.

If anything, LLM's seem to be far more consistent in documenting the rationales for design decisions, leaving clear comments in code and commit messages, etc. if you ask them to.

Unfortunately, humans generally are not better at communicating about their process, in my experience. Most engineers I know enjoy writing code, and hate documenting what they're doing. Git and issue-tracking have helped somewhat, but it's still very often about the "what" and not the "why this way".

Re: Google Antigravity

#458

Post by thatoneengineer »

sorokod wrote: post #435
uatec wrote: post #378

"Congratulations, you have been elevated to manager to agents." That's not exactly really where I hoped my career would lead. It's like managing junior developers, but without having nice people to work with.

"junior developers" is a convenient label, it is incorrect but it will take a bit until we come up something that describes entities that: - can write code - tireless - have no aspirations - have no stylistic or architectural preferences - have massive, but at the same time not well defined, body of knowledge - have no intrinsic memories of past interactions. - change in unexpected ways when underlying models change…

"brooms"

Re: Google Antigravity

#459

Post by p3rls »

echelon wrote: post #155
modeless wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for saying what this entire blog post doesn't. It's actually disrespectful of Google to launch this without even a mention of the fact that it is based on VSCode.

Google is going to win AI and kill all the other market participants. They have the revenues to support all of this. They spent time learning from all the players and can now fast follow into every market. Now they're fast and nimble and are willing to clone other products wholesale, fork VSCode, etc. They're developing all of this, meanwhile Pichai is calling it a "bubble" to put a chill on funding (read: competitio…

[dead]

Re: Google Antigravity

#460

Post by astrange »

echelon wrote: post #155
modeless wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for saying what this entire blog post doesn't. It's actually disrespectful of Google to launch this without even a mention of the fact that it is based on VSCode.

Google is going to win AI and kill all the other market participants. They have the revenues to support all of this. They spent time learning from all the players and can now fast follow into every market. Now they're fast and nimble and are willing to clone other products wholesale, fork VSCode, etc. They're developing all of this, meanwhile Pichai is calling it a "bubble" to put a chill on funding (read: competitio…

Google? Push wages down? Google is mostly known for paying top of market to keep a zoo of engineers whose only output is blog posts about how smart they are because they solved a problem they also caused.

(presumably because if they touch the ad system it might break)

> a16z and YC must hate this. It puts a cap on their returns.

And a16z's main business is investing in financial scams.

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