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Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

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Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#451

Post by ManBeardPc »

aitchnyu wrote: post #426
ManBeardPc wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The awesome part is you can circumvent the 800W. First you can legally install 2000W solar panels, making 800W output much more likely. The 800W is only how much you can feed back into the grid. Second you can install one or more batteries and feed devices from them, further increasing the usable energy.

Can we generate 2 kw, charge batteries and ensure only 800 is fed back at any time?

Yes, that is exactly what is happening. 2000W solar panels feed the battery, up to 800W are allowed to be fed back into the grid/house network. Keep in mind you could also plug a 3000W device directly into the battery, meaning you could power a lot more than that if it is not connected to the grid. If you have devices that need little power for a long duration or high power for a short duration they can be fed with 100% solar that way. Depending on your use case that can save further money.

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#452

Post by tasuki »

pintxo wrote: post #228
squarefoot wrote: post #225

What is the real throughput of panels mounted vertically? I have put solar on my roof plus batteries and it reduced significantly my dependence on gas and cost of heating bills, but they're mounted on two sides so they see the sun from early-mid morning to mid afternoon, with peaks roughly mid day depending on season. I've always been skeptical about vertically mounted ones but people say they work, so not sure what…

You loose performance at noon/summer, when you are likely to produce over your demand anyway. But during winter/rainy days, when you are limited to diffuse light, they deliver the same output. The point is that panels are so dead cheap now, that efficiency of orientation is no longer an issue.

Approximately how much does a panel generate from diffuse light compared to direct sunlight?

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#453

Post by infecto »

I hope the US can have more of this. I never thought solar on most resi roofs made any sense. The cost is high, lots of risk from leaks but building a patio with a pergola or other shaded structure? Sign me up. The Us should be fighting to lower the red tape to get these kind of systems in place.

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#454

Post by tootie »

owenversteeg wrote: post #418

There's a funny comment downthread that says "It's like the backyard furnaces during the Great Leap Forward." Everyone replying disagrees, but I think it's a perfect analogy: just like the backyard furnaces, these small-scale installations are inefficient, provide a negligible portion of total energy needs (<1% of total energy needs if everyone in Germany did it, from TFA), look ugly and - this is the most important…

1% of Germany's power needs sound like an awful lot to me.

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#455

Post by aleph_minus_one »

rozenmd wrote: post #342
thinkindie wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norway gets most of its wealth from fossil fuel. While it's not Saudi Arabia nor Venezuela, and they invested in long term sustainability, it's not fair to everyone else to say that they are at 80%EV because they are forward thinkers, but because they have the money to do that.

It took forward thinking to dump their wealth into a sovereign wealth fund. Australia started at a similar point with mineral wealth in the 90s and decided tax cuts for the middle class were a better idea (under Howard/Costello).

> It took forward thinking to dump their wealth into a sovereign wealth fund.

Such a proposal can be adopted much more easily if the population is rather small and homogenous.

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#456

Post by tcfhgj »

spankibalt wrote: post #364
Poisonbox wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That post is some dangerous half-knowledge and simplifications stated as fact. Yes, Habeck is an interventionist, but his biggest interventions were a direct response to... you know, the war in Ukraine. What did anyone expect? When Putin turned off the gas, was Habeck supposed to just let the free market sort it out while factories shut down and people froze? Those price caps and the Uniper buyout weren't pre-planned…

> "That post is some dangerous half-knowledge and simplifications stated as fact." That's... putting it mildly. To call a spade a spade: The post you replied to consists of nothing more than anti-Green crankery. The kind of tedious, intellectually dishonest click-bait crap you see disseminated in the Springer-Presse, e. g. ze WELT-Plus -Commentariat, or media of even less repute.

thank you two for providing important context, although it is not popular

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#457

Post by Slartie »

alexey-salmin wrote: post #344
kragen wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Around here I have a backyard washing machine, a backyard grill, a backyard clothesline, and my neighbors have backyard childcare, backyard parking, and a backyard motorcycle. And actually inside my house I have a flush toilet and an oven. Your assertion seems to imply that if instead I had to wash and dry my laundry at a coin-operated laundromat, eat at a cafeteria table with all my neighbors, and piss in a portapot…

> Your generalization that any kind of decentralization amounts to collective action failure is wrong. Some kinds of decentralization do; ... Others don't. That's correct, yes. I too prefer a decentralized washing machine to coin-operated laundromats which are very common in France where I live nowadays. However I still believe that electricity generation has more in common with steelmaking than with laundry. Today s…

> Today solar panels make sense in terms of money ROI but not in terms of KWh ROI

That is clearly wrong. Even the worst-case embodied energy assumptions for solar panels estimate the cost of producing a square meter of solar panel area at 2000 kWh (the best cases are around 300, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_return_on_investment#Ph... ). A square meter of solar panel area produces an average of 200 kWh of power per year in Germany (which implies a pessimistic assumption, more sunnier countries can get a multiple of that). This means that even in the worst case, the solar panel has amortized itself from the perspective of embodied energy after 10 years. On average it will be more like below 5 years. Solar panels however have an expected lifetime of well over 30 years and require no maintenance if installed correctly.

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#458

Post by p2detar »

Archelaos wrote: post #402
walthamstow wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not German nor do I live there, but I would have thought the legacy of Habeck would be more negative due to his opposition to nuclear.

Nuclear technology is a dead end. Renewables and saving energy is the future. Nuclear and fossil are in the same boat. They are both more risky and have huge hidden costs that the general public and future generations will have to bear. The only good reason to go nuclear these days is if you want the bomb, like Iran. Interestingly, it is the same people who supported fossil in the past who are still promoting nuclear…

> The only good reason to go nuclear these days is if you want the bomb, like Iran.

I‘m sorry but this is just absolute nonsense.

Nuclear energy is the most dense energy type humanity ever produced. To put it in one line with coal and oil is not serious. Not to mention it’s far less hazardous to human health, again compared to fossil fuels. Here is a basic comparison:

> With a complete combustion or fission, approx. 8 kWh of heat can be generated from 1 kg of coal, approx. 12 kWh from 1 kg of mineral oil and around 24,000,000 kWh from 1 kg of uranium-235. Related to one kilogram, uranium-235 contains two to three million times the energy equivalent of oil or coal.

https://www.euronuclear.org/glossary/fuel-comparison/

edit: typo

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#459

Post by p2detar »

walthamstow wrote: post #339
grumpy-de-sre wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a bad legacy for Robert Habeck (along with the wind reforms), the leader we needed but didn't deserve [1][2]. Interestingly he's recently dropped out of politics and taken a teaching role at UC Berkeley. 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxwVR5JF8Ok 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxnnVPO9GFU

I'm not German nor do I live there, but I would have thought the legacy of Habeck would be more negative due to his opposition to nuclear.

Well, I like the guy but compare the electricity prices in Germany to other European states, and also to China and the US. It’s about $0.15 kWh in the US vs $0.40 kWh in Germany. I personally think this is absolutely insane, but I don’t blame Habeck but the poor renewables transition execution in Germany. It is currently a failure in terms of electricity consumer prices.

Edit: I just rechecked China and wow! $0.08 per kWh. Can anyone confirm?

https://www.china-briefing.com/news/chinas-industrial-power-...

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#460

Post by flohofwoe »

ReptileMan wrote: post #394
watwut wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1.) Russia is already sending drones to border countries. 2.) Russian politicians openly talk about such possibility. 3.) Russian interest in expansion is no secret. War with Russia is a real possibility. Considering NATO is not reliable anymore (due USA being less then reliable partner) , considering China seem to low key support Russia, it is not even crazy from the Russian side.

>War with Russia is a real possibility No it is not because of 3 reasons: 1. Russia has no resources to wage war on NATO 2. Russia has no resources to wage war on NATO 3. Russia has no resources to wage war on NATO War with russia is mostly hawks' and chicken littles' of the media wet dreams.

If anything has become clear in the last couple of years is that Russia doesn't act rationally, and their government lies as soon as they open their mouths. E.g trying to explain Russia's actions with 'reason' is just a waste of time.

Also: "if you want peace, prepare for war" has never been more true than now, as sad as that is.

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