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SEC approves Texas Stock Exchange, first new US integrated exchange in decades

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Re: SEC approves Texas Stock Exchange, first new US integrated exchange in decades

#451

Post by resters »

zmgsabst wrote: post #444
growse wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do people doing normal trading want to avoid the exchanges that have HFT computers skimming money off their trades? What's "normal trading"? A prop desk at an investment bank? A hedge fund? A pension fund? Someone who's just installed Robin Hood on their phone? Most rational participants want lower trading costs and overheads, smaller spreads etc. HFT provides that - the evidence being "look at what the spreads…

> Could you explain how a market participant who makes one trade a day is negatively impacted by high resolution price discovery? They’re negatively impacted because the SNR drops when the gain is turned up and causes algorithmic ringing to perturb the price that would be generated by high quality signal. People who extract money by injecting algorithmic ringing into financial markets are a social parasite.

I'm curious which tradition inspires your view...

a) https://www.sefaria.org/Bava_Batra.90b.1?lang=bi&with=Introd...

b) https://sunnah.com/nasai/44

Re: SEC approves Texas Stock Exchange, first new US integrated exchange in decades

#452

Post by resters »

jiggawatts wrote: post #437
drob518 wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, seconds good but milliseconds bad? That seems rather arbitrary.

The boundary is "arbitrary", but clearly there has to be one, otherwise we're all nodding in agreement as trading speed heads inexorably towards Plank time units. We have some convenient "lines in the sand" that we can use as a guide: - To make trading fair globally, the round-trip time for light around the planet could be multiplied a couple of times. That's about a second. - The fastest possible time a human can pa…

Which tradition inspires your view...

a) https://www.sefaria.org/Bava_Batra.90b.1?lang=bi&with=Introd...

b) https://sunnah.com/nasai/44

Re: SEC approves Texas Stock Exchange, first new US integrated exchange in decades

#453

Post by CyberDildonics »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #407
CyberDildonics wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only way to implement this is to eliminate competition between exchanges. There are two different things being talked about here. Trading based on arbitrage between exchanges will happen in one way or another no matter what. Trading millions of times per second automatically on the same exchange when some people have low latency computers at the exchange with huge amounts of extra information is not necessary. Al…

> point isn't to make something 'wall street hates' it's to make something that doesn't get money eaten away by automated computers Wall Street lobbies to ban HFT because HFT’s computers eat away less than traditional dealers would. Retail investors railing against HFTs are sort of like those San Francisco types who protest new development to the benefit of their landlords.

Retail investors railing against HFTs are sort of like those San Francisco types who protest new development to the benefit of their landlords.

It's nothing like that since there isn't a limited resource and everyone has access to the core purpose, which is to trade stocks.

What I notice with these discussions is that no one can actually explain why a retail investor or anyone would want computers trading underneath them millions of times a second.

At best they try to give hft credit for the automation that happened with computers anyway.

The only people that want it are the people doing it. That's not a business, that's a grift.

Re: SEC approves Texas Stock Exchange, first new US integrated exchange in decades

#454

Post by resters »

CyberDildonics wrote: post #453
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> point isn't to make something 'wall street hates' it's to make something that doesn't get money eaten away by automated computers Wall Street lobbies to ban HFT because HFT’s computers eat away less than traditional dealers would. Retail investors railing against HFTs are sort of like those San Francisco types who protest new development to the benefit of their landlords.

Retail investors railing against HFTs are sort of like those San Francisco types who protest new development to the benefit of their landlords. It's nothing like that since there isn't a limited resource and everyone has access to the core purpose, which is to trade stocks. What I notice with these discussions is that no one can actually explain why a retail investor or anyone would want computers trading underneath…

Does one of the following traditions inform your view on this issue?

a) https://www.sefaria.org/Bava_Batra.90b.1?lang=bi&with=Introd...

b) https://sunnah.com/nasai/44

Re: SEC approves Texas Stock Exchange, first new US integrated exchange in decades

#455

Post by Retz4o4 »

leetharris wrote: post #60
cozzyd wrote: post #10

Hope they have ample backup power

Texas loses power one time for a week and the redditors will never let it go. Wild how this is still a cringe joke so many years later.

“ Houston has the worst power outages in the nation; how bad is it in your ZIP code?”

https://www.click2houston.com/news/local/2025/10/07/check-no...

Re: SEC approves Texas Stock Exchange, first new US integrated exchange in decades

#456

Post by instig007 »

krapp wrote: post #439
Ekaros wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And while at that. Remove all circuit breakers. Let the markets be free. Whatever they do. Rocket up or down.

We tried laissez-faire unregulated markets in the 1920s and it didn't go well for anyone but the robber barons. Maybe you expect to be one of them, but you'll probably just end up in the soup lines with everyone else.

> We tried laissez-faire unregulated markets in the 1920s and it didn't go well for anyone but the robber barons.

yes, let's keep creating too-big-to-fails instead and reward them with bailouts for their mismanagement and borderline criminal misconduct.

Re: SEC approves Texas Stock Exchange, first new US integrated exchange in decades

#457

Post by KPGv2 »

CyberDildonics wrote: post #404
KPGv2 wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The better the computers hooked directly into the exchange get you mean. I need you to understand that HFT makes decisions based on human-defined parameters. It's not AI-driven. What's the difference between a human saying "these are my parameters, now CPU, go trade based off those" versus "these are my parameters, now underling, go trade based off those" the only difference is speed, plus i suppose those underling…

I need you to understand that HFT makes decisions based on human-defined parameters. It's not AI-driven. You need me to understand something I never said anything about? No one said AI.

You wrote:

> > the better our discovery gets

> The better the computers hooked directly into the exchange get you mean.

This implies a distinction between "our" (i.e., humans) and "the computers." Can you explain what distinction you meant if it wasn't AI? After all, everything computers do outside AI is done pursuant to knowable, describable human control, no different from pressing keys on a keyboard.

So if you didn't mean AI, I think it's worse for your argument, not better.

Re: SEC approves Texas Stock Exchange, first new US integrated exchange in decades

#458

Post by KPGv2 »

serf wrote: post #428
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anyone who isn't involved in HFT should be in favor of rules that slow down trades to human time scales What are you basing this on? I’m a former algorithmic market maker. Every plan to “slow down trades to human time scales” I’ve seen were trivially gameable. They were always proposed by a group of concerned citizens, and then jumped on by my bosses, because if the market is slowed down to pre-HFT speeds, Wall Str…

I feel like all of these points beg us to loop around and ask the question : "How does HFT provide social benefit to the world at large?" the exchanges weren't established for the abstract sake of money, they were established to provide benefit to people. Does HFT still do this overall, or is it for the benefit of a small in-group of elite? Why is that favorable? Because we nobodies can buy the ETF?

> "How does HFT provide social benefit to the world at large?"

It's explained multiple times in this very discussion. It's not our fault if you refuse to read them. But the most straightforward and obvious way is that it injects liquidity into the market, making it easier to sell when you need to liquidate. (It also reduces volatility overall, another good thing.)

> > the exchanges weren't established for the abstract sake of money, they were established to provide benefit to people.

Snort. The exchanges were established by wealthy people, for wealthy people, to engage in business with other wealthy people.

The NYSE was established in 1792. Is it your contention that anyone except the elites were buying and selling stocks in 1792? Let alone all the exchanges that pre-date the NYSE. The Amsterdam Stock Exchange was set up in the 1600s specifically to facilitate the buying and selling of Dutch East India Company shares. Was Farmer Aardhuis buying shares? Or aristocrats and royalty?

Re: SEC approves Texas Stock Exchange, first new US integrated exchange in decades

#459

Post by ForHackernews »

abm53 wrote: post #413
ForHackernews wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty funny that there are people in this thread pretending like "price discovery" is a real thing that happens in markets based on information. We've all seen Dogecoin and BBBYQ. The emperor has no clothes.

We could make the distinction between price discovery, i.e. what price are people currently willing to buy and sell at (short-term) vs value discovery (long-term).

In the short term the market is a blockchain-enabled voting machine but in the long term it's an Elon Musk tweet-weighing machine.

Re: SEC approves Texas Stock Exchange, first new US integrated exchange in decades

#460

Post by krapp »

instig007 wrote: post #456
krapp wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We tried laissez-faire unregulated markets in the 1920s and it didn't go well for anyone but the robber barons. Maybe you expect to be one of them, but you'll probably just end up in the soup lines with everyone else.

> We tried laissez-faire unregulated markets in the 1920s and it didn't go well for anyone but the robber barons. yes, let's keep creating too-big-to-fails instead and reward them with bailouts for their mismanagement and borderline criminal misconduct.

>yes, let's keep creating too-big-to-fails instead and reward them with bailouts for their mismanagement and borderline criminal misconduct.

Or maybe we live in a world where nuance exists and there are there are more options on the table than anarchy and oligarchy?

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