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Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

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Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#451

Post by hedora »

sporkxrocket wrote: post #435
UmGuys wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question, will you abstain from voting? There are only 2 parties and they both fund Israel. One maybe slightly less.

Yes, I will. I will not vote for anyone who supports Israel. My vote is here for the taking, I just need to see an anti-Zionist candidate.

This line of reasoning helped get Trump in.

It’s hard to say what Harris would have done, but it’s unlikely she would have greenlit the complete demolition of Gaza so she could build a resort.

Similarly, I doubt she would have forced places like UC Berkeley to send her lists of people critical of Israel (like you), then opened critical investigations against them.

Refusing to vote is the best way to ensure policies you object to the most are expanded.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#454

Post by [deleted] »

runarberg wrote: post #443
_DeadFred_ wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling someone directly out/impugning their motives instead of responding is actually a violation of the HN guidelines. You can respond to topics, not posters. You are the one in violation. This isn't the first time I've seem this 'you aren't in good faith' response on this topic, and is partly why again, HN just isn't a place where a real discussion can be had on this subject.

I want to be clear that my first sentence was speaking generally and not accusing my parent directly of being in bad faith. And in keeping with the spirit of HN I responded to my parent assuming good faith. Otherwise you are right, I have accused others of being in bad faith on this topic, however when I do so, I tend to do it after many more interactions than what I have had with my parent above.

[deleted]

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#455

Post by hedora »

sporkxrocket wrote: post #436
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I won’t vote unless someone NOT funded by AIPAC is on the ballot Then you're electorally irrelevant. Particularly if your only civic (in)action is not voting.

No, they're a vote that can be won by someone willing to stand up to AIPAC. I also will not vote for a Zionist. At some point, if we live in a real democracy, someone will put winning an election over being controlled by Israel.

That’s not how US elections work.

Fun fact: If people like you would get off their asses on Election Day, Texas would have been a blue state for the last 15 years.

The GOP would be done, and we could meaningfully decide between the Bidens and Bernies of this world.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#456

Post by Cyph0n »

scarecrowbob wrote: post #375
GoatInGrey wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People didn't flip to red so much as blue voters in swing states sitting on their hands and abstaining from voting. Now they're looking down the barrel of authoritarianism and they're still unwilling to vote unless Gaza is a fully solved problem. The cruel irony is that this behavior is worsening the situation in Gaza.

Couldn't the Democrats change their positions so that they align with and accommodate popular positions and win elections. I don't think most of the (rather large block) of folks I know who abstained wanted a fully solved problem, they wanted the US to stop funding Israel and that is a position that the Democratic party could have taken if they had chosen to do so.

This is what people don’t understand, because it isn’t their single issue.

If I beg you to reconsider on a very serious issue that is in your power to change stance on, and you not only ignore me but laugh in my face, then why exactly do you still get my vote? Why exactly should I reward you for completely ignoring my protests?

Make sure to swap Gaza for your single issue - maybe LGBT rights, or abortion, or gun rights - and then seriously think about how you would deal with it.

The Democratic party has basically decided to lean on “but they’re worse” as a political platform while backsliding on multiple issues. They do this because Democrat voters lap that shit up, chant “vote blue no matter who” like members of a cult, and then cry out in astonishment when the Democrats in Congress and in the gov keep sliding towards the right.

Also, an addendum: before blaming abstainers and third-party voters, it might be good to ponder on why Democrats preferred risking losing the presidency over making any concessions whatsoever on Palestine. At best, it was a grave miscalculation borne out of hubris. At worst, it was an act of self-sabotage to ensure unconditional support for Israel. Pick your poison :)

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#457

Post by _DeadFred_ »

aqme28 wrote: post #100
dotancohen wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

They've offered! Israel's government is demonstrably not interested in the hostages.

The never offered to release all of the hostages, they always insisted on holding some back.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#458

Post by SilverElfin »

thunky wrote: post #370
sfink wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't label this as "support for Israel"/"against Israel". One can support Israel without supporting Israel's current approach. Many within Israel are not happy with Netanyahu's methods, and presumably they are not against Israel. I understand that that's the current shorthand, but it seems inaccurate and unnecessarily polarizing to me.

> One can support Israel without supporting Israel's current approach. I think you're overthinking this. We're taking about a country committing genocide here. You either support them or you don't.

[flagged]

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#459

Post by master_crab »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #344
mandeepj wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The videos coming out of Gaza have turned me and many others into single issue voters. Ironically, that was one of the biggest campaign points and voter sentiment on which people flipped to Red. We all know what happened.

> that was one of the biggest campaign points and voter sentiment on which people flipped to Red This is nonsense outside Michigan. And to the extent this happened, I'd have to say pro-Palestinian voters in swing states casting with the guy who initiated the Muslim ban and recognised Jerusalem as Israel's capital essentially communicated that they were fine throwing millions of people in the Middle East under the bus…

There is such a thing as sitting-it-out. People didn’t necessarily vote for Trump. They just didn’t vote for Harris. And that is exactly what the voting record shows: votes for Democrats dropped significantly between 2020 and 2024.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#460

Post by SilverElfin »

7952 wrote: post #233
dlubarov wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would we expect any desirable outcome in this hypothetical though? So the US flips, Israel is pressured into withdrawing, Hamas regains control of the strip and resumes rocket attacks, Israel is forced to respond eventually. It doesn't seem like a path toward a real solution.

There isn't a real solution. Just an opportunity for a few years of peace where people can do the important things in life. That is no small thing though. The danger is in chasing some quixotic nationalist dream. That is never ever going to work out.

Well the real solution is to have a single state and assimilation of some kind, so that people can coexist. It’s possible. Israel itself demonstrates this since nearly 30% of the population isn’t Jewish. But I think a peaceful two state coexistence is unlikely with people who chant “from the River to sea”, which implies the complete erasure of the state of Israel.
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