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Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

businessinsider.com

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Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#451

Post by brg »

taway1874 wrote: post #328
nickff wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be demanding some proof of the RTO side, which is a reversion to the mean, while providing none for your own side. I see and hear people talking about all the non-work things they due while being paid, and am unsurprised that their managers suspect a negative impact on productivity.

OK, so it's not that hard but try and follow along. Did the employees say they have the data to prove it? No! Did mgmt. say it? Yes! So let's ask mgmt. first to disclose said data. Got it?

In at least one case it wasn’t released by management because it was absurdly embarrassing. Productivity compared between 2019 and 2023 had statistics similar to the following; average yearly CLs decreased from approximately 70 to under 10, significant revisions pushed in comparable products changed from 26 to 4, meeting time increased by a multiple, email volume decreased similarity. All this with significant increases in seniority and pay among the average employee. Contrapositive scenarios argue that there is a huge opportunity cost to the tech efforts from WFH.

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#452

Post by rr808 »

xtracto wrote: post #278

Just out of curiosity, how much compensation would people be willing to leave on the table in lieu of "Remote" work? (this is different to, how much would you ASK to go from remote to a new in-office job). 10%, 25%, 50%? I've worked remotely for 5 years now, and there is NO way I would return to an office based job. I even have moved to a small town where there are practically 0 tech jobs; and at this point there's N…

This is the answer, its supply demand and there is likely going to be a different equilibrium price for each.

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#453

Post by renewiltord »

bluGill wrote: post #385
renewiltord wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people say this? “Talk to a lawyer”. It’s the most useless advice. Okay, you don’t know. That’s fine. Don’t waste everyone’s time. Why just give this content free advice?

Because if you suspect the law does apply to you then you need a lawyer to vet the details. For most this probably doesn't apply, but you have to decide based on the specifics of your situation and those should include details you wouldn't post publically. also if you are a lawyer or come off as a lawyer giving legal advice and you miss one rare detail that matters for one person you are liable for bad advice. So say…

I mean I get it. It’s just that unsolicited advice to talk to a lawyer is kind of useless? In this particular case it’s worse than useless because you’ll never get a good lawyer to take this case. It’s like some automated LLM response.

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#455

Post by danaris »

losteric wrote: post #416
ponector wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> where it comes from It's a power play. To show regular folks their place. Big corpo is a modern feodal state, where CEO is an emperor, c-suites are kings, managers are barons, IC are peasants and external contractors are slaves(but leased from other owner). It's not only RTO, it's also about timetable and dress code. Yes, I had a beef with IT manager about dress code in the development office of a bank. Just becau…

> Big corpo is a modern feodal state, where CEO is an emperor, c-suites are kings, managers are barons Why do people forget about board members and shareholders? There's a lot of overlap among the rich. I doubt Satya "wants" to RTO. I would suspect board members / shareholders with real estate interests are forcing the policy. (eg Vanguard holds 10%, with Blackrock close behind). Big corpo is a feudal state, in the s…

Well, then show the evidence.

If this is a shareholder action, of a publicly-traded company, then (IIUC) shouldn't that be publicly-available information somewhere?

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#456

Post by symaxian »

mji wrote: post #435
zero_shift wrote: post #190

At $org, we too are undertaking a mandatory RTO order, enforced with door access logs. People are up in arms, particularly those in our smaller locales, where the offices we have are perfunctory at best. The rationale is the usual one: collaboration, watercooler chat, unspecific evidence / "research" about productivity (that we are told definitely exists, but is yet to be shared). I remain baffled by executives' obse…

I think CEO types simply believe (rightly or wrongly) that a large number of people are taking advantage of WFH to barely work.

I'd like to ask these CEOs, for people which are taking advantage of the system, why are they not let go? Could it be that management often have no clue how much value each employee brings to the team? Is RTO being mandated to avoid facing that uncomfortable truth?

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#457

Post by bluGill »

renewiltord wrote: post #453
bluGill wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because if you suspect the law does apply to you then you need a lawyer to vet the details. For most this probably doesn't apply, but you have to decide based on the specifics of your situation and those should include details you wouldn't post publically. also if you are a lawyer or come off as a lawyer giving legal advice and you miss one rare detail that matters for one person you are liable for bad advice. So say…

I mean I get it. It’s just that unsolicited advice to talk to a lawyer is kind of useless? In this particular case it’s worse than useless because you’ll never get a good lawyer to take this case. It’s like some automated LLM response.

most talks with lawyers do not lead to court. They can give plenty of useful advice in many other situations. Just knowing how to frame things with the next job for example.

now granted it isn't worth it for most of us to bother. However if there is any doubt ten minutes and a few dollars is worth the cost.

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#458

Post by foogazi »

malfist wrote: post #428
SoftTalker wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The funny thing is, I get more done at the office than at home. And if I’m dressed professionally, I get more done and I get better responses from others than when I’m wearing shorts and a tee shirt. I’d prefer to work from home wearing pajamas but I can sympathize with why my employer wants me in the office and may even have a dress code. Be glad you didn’t work in the development office of a bank in the 1990s, you’…

Okay, great. You can work from the office. Don't dictate to the rest of us that we have to work the way you work best

They work better with you sitting next to them /s

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#459

Post by danaris »

steveBK123 wrote: post #369
the_gipsy wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> unspecific vibes that it must be bad if employees like it omg that explains so many things!

The way these people think - if employees like it, it must be a perk/benefit. Therefore with the current job market we don’t need to be generous with it. Related - JPMorgan is opening a new HQ with a big nice gym, and plan to charge employees to use it, lol. Thanks I’ll just leave the building Jamie.

> if employees like it, it must be a perk/benefit.

Or, for those who have bought into the utterly toxic mindset that employees are always trying to get as much out of the company as possible for as little work as possible, "if employees like it, it must be a scam on us."

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#460

Post by Rohansi »

Aurornis wrote: post #255
thr0waway001 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At our company some people outright admitted on a survey sent out to employees that they would go out and run errands during work hours. Like, how stupid do you have to be to kill your golden goose of life work balance?

That's nothing. One company near me had parents cancel their daycare when they were allowed to WFH. A lot of employees were trying to care for young kids and "work" at the same time.

I don't see the issue with this as long as the parents would still be putting the same time/effort into their work. It would just be split up.
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