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Six months into tariffs, businesses have no idea how to price anything

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Re: Six months into tariffs, businesses have no idea how to price anything

#451

[flagged]

My point of view , from Europe, is that political violence is already there in the US. As well as state violence (not just on political opponents, but also on all minorities and "people who have a different opinion"). The next step is indeed a second civil war, with 21st century characteristics (hybrid war, etc...) I am not enthusiastic about the near future for the US nor for the world.

Re: Six months into tariffs, businesses have no idea how to price anything

#452

In NYC, for the first 6 months of 2025, 994 new private sector jobs were created [1]. During the same period last year, there were 66,000 new jobs created. Higher cost of doing business from tariffs has frozen hiring. With a frozen job market, there’s less revenue coming in. NYC is a leading indicator for the rest of the country. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/13/nyregion/nyc-jobs.html

New York is teeming with what appear to be newly arrived "immigrants" who do no speak a word of English (and frankly are rather aggressive about their refusal to do so) yet are employed in various crafts. We had fairly substantial renovation recently in our building. Every single worker was clearly a recent arrival. How do we know how many jobs were actually created if so many of them are not "officially recorded"?

(I am an immigrant myself (via the legal means) lest you take my observation as a xenophobic expression.)

Re: Six months into tariffs, businesses have no idea how to price anything

#453
post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It's not achievable because a disappointingly large chunk of your population believes this about "the other guys"

It's not achievable because you have something like 5.3 people in the middle wtfing in all directions.

Re: Six months into tariffs, businesses have no idea how to price anything

#454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Check out the graph Visualizing Economics cites this source [1]. VE seem to lie about what it says. Measuring Worth shows 1774 CPI at 7.8; by 1912 it is 9.4 [2]. That’s a low, low inflation rate of 0.1% per year, 20% over 138 years. But it’s not zero and it’s certainly not negative. If we take 1790 (8.86) to 1914 (9.69), MW shows 0.07% annual inflation. That is the statistic you should be pointing to. But! Within t…

> That’s a low, low inflation rate of 0.1% per year, See where I quoted: "-0.2% Average Annual Inflation 1774-1912" BTW, inflation measurements before 1900 are a bit difficult, as how does one compare prices from 1774 with 1912? Not only are records poor, but the goods being compared are wildly different. I.e. I don't know what the error bars are on the aggregate statistics, and neither do you. 0.1% and -0.2% are rea…

> where I quoted: "-0.2% Average Annual Inflation 1774-1912"

You quoted VE. They misquoted MW. If VE is adding error bars to MW’s data, they—one—should not. But if they do, they should show how they manipulated the data.

There is no legitimate source showing negative annual inflation between 1774 and 1912; your source’s own sole citation disagrees with its claim.

> 0.1% and -0.2% are realistically well within the error bars

What error bars?! They’re the same data!

Your chart on VE says it is showing data from MW. I took those same data and calculated the same number your chart claims to calculate with the same data they link to. The answer is different. And this isn’t, like, I used CAGR and they did simple growth because the sign flipped!

> inflation measurements before 1900 are a bit difficult, as how does one compare prices from 1774 with 1912?

You really can’t. Not meaningfully. You’re integrating data covering the pound sterling, Continental Congress, eras with no federal currency, eras with state and wildcat currency, and a civil war to boot. You’re also trying to compare a basket of wooden teeth and suet with one holding smartphones, gasoline and antibiotics.

But you brought the data and made the claim, and while VE is lying about what their source says, the actual data at MW is actually a legitimate attempt at the problem.

Re: Six months into tariffs, businesses have no idea how to price anything

#455
post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See this is what I don't understand. Everything you just said about China is a positive. Everything you said about China is achievable in the USA, and we at least HAD a head start on soft-power influence. Instead we should just have tariffs instead of actually making the lives of Americans better while FIGHTING affordable housing, high speed rail, and EVs. We've got an entire team of goons who would rather rack up pe…

I do think the state of progress in China is vastly underestimated by the west. It has been fast and messy, not evenly distributed, but it is staggering. The rhetoric around them is changing too, I think they are making significant soft power gains. I could easily see them filling the voids that US policy chaos is currently creating.

> I could easily see them filling the voids that US policy chaos is currently creating.

More than that, I think China would be mad not to step into the vacuum the US is creating with it's isolationist policies. For years US aid has been extremely influential around the world, doing a huge amount of good (e.g. USAID) and buying relatively cheap influence in many countries. Countries that were reliant on that aid are going to be understandably jaded by their experience with the US and looking for more reliable allies.

Re: Six months into tariffs, businesses have no idea how to price anything

#456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not seeing anything in these quotes claiming there wasn’t inflation in America before the Fed.

The Friedman quotes attributed inflation to the actions of the Fed. As for inflation through the history of the US, see: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45081346

> Friedman quotes attributed inflation to the actions of the Fed

Then this is a lie: “Inflation started the year after the Fed was created. See ‘Monetary History of the United States’ by Milton Friedman” [1].

> for inflation through the history of the US, see

I’ve already pointed out how that source lies about the data it cites [2].

I will assume you’re misunderstanding what you’re reading. But it’s too close to willful dishonesty for me to continue to engage if you’re just going to double down.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45081413

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45081346

Re: Six months into tariffs, businesses have no idea how to price anything

#457

[flagged]

Ironically, if a civil war was going to happen it will be because Trump's overuse of the military. It is such an newbie African dictator mistake. Every time you use the military to put down civil unrest you give them an inch of your power and before you know it, they figure they don't need the regime anymore.

You will never see Putin outsourcing civilian tasks to the military.

Re: Six months into tariffs, businesses have no idea how to price anything

#458

In NYC, for the first 6 months of 2025, 994 new private sector jobs were created [1]. During the same period last year, there were 66,000 new jobs created. Higher cost of doing business from tariffs has frozen hiring. With a frozen job market, there’s less revenue coming in. NYC is a leading indicator for the rest of the country. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/13/nyregion/nyc-jobs.html

New York is teeming with what appear to be newly arrived "immigrants" who do no speak a word of English (and frankly are rather aggressive about their refusal to do so) yet are employed in various crafts. We had fairly substantial renovation recently in our building. Every single worker was clearly a recent arrival. How do we know how many jobs were actually created if so many of them are not "officially recorded"? (…

[deleted]

Re: Six months into tariffs, businesses have no idea how to price anything

#459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That’s a low, low inflation rate of 0.1% per year, See where I quoted: "-0.2% Average Annual Inflation 1774-1912" BTW, inflation measurements before 1900 are a bit difficult, as how does one compare prices from 1774 with 1912? Not only are records poor, but the goods being compared are wildly different. I.e. I don't know what the error bars are on the aggregate statistics, and neither do you. 0.1% and -0.2% are rea…

> where I quoted: "-0.2% Average Annual Inflation 1774-1912" You quoted VE . They misquoted MW . If VE is adding error bars to MW ’s data, they—one—should not. But if they do, they should show how they manipulated the data. There is no legitimate source showing negative annual inflation between 1774 and 1912; your source’s own sole citation disagrees with its claim. > 0.1% and -0.2% are realistically well within the…

You're hanging your hat on a minute difference and ignoring the elephant on the graph.

Re: Six months into tariffs, businesses have no idea how to price anything

#460
post #156
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even assuming that there were no other federal, state or local YoY differences [1] that could explain this change (and that the numbers are right as presented in the first place), New York City private sector employment is nothing like most other parts of the US: it's the largest city in the US by a large margin, it has a concentration of employment in a few major industries (finance, fashion, publishing, software) t…

Yes, a tariff can be a good measure. But for that the tariffed goods need to be selected carefully and rationally und not whatever the heck the Trump administration is doing. For example you can tariff bananas all you like, that won't spark widespread banana production in a climate that can't grow them.

Hawaii produces 6.3 million lbs per year of bananas which is a tiny fraction of the 8 million metric tons per year Ecuador produces. Labor and land cost is the primary reason Hawaii can't compete with Latin America, but long-standing tariffs could change that.
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