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We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

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Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#451

Post by to11mtm »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #214
johnfn wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't buy this explanation. There are plenty of things you can do together that don't cost very much - or anything at all. You can go take a hike. You can go to the park and hang out, or play a board game. You can go to a court and play pickleball. Heck, go to the library! All these things are free and many people do them.

I totally agree, though I'd like to frame OP's argument a little differently in a way that makes more sense I think. I agree the "shit is just too expensive" is a pretty lame excuse. I think to back when I was a poor ballet dancer around college age, and we always found lots of cheap things to do - a lot of it was like you said, usually just going over to people's houses to hang out, or doing stuff in the city that w…

> It's just a lot easier to sit at home with these kinds of entertainment, so the "activation energy" required to go get up and plan things with friends just feels a lot higher.

Ding ding ding!

> There is TikTok, YouTube, Netflix, multiplayer gaming, etc.

With the one caveat that 'multiplayer gaming' can indeed be a proper socialization experience if you're playing with friends/etc (vs say just YOLOing in something like FPS lobbies etc.)

Or, at bare minimum, it's still more effort than the other options you mention.

In the last few weeks I've tried to be extra mindful about being more 'interactive' with other things in my free time. It's shocking how easy it gets to just fall into a Youtube video rabbit hole. It reinforces how sad I get about my partner's constant scrolling through Facebook.

Heck even now I feel guilty about just doing HN, on the other hand I am still recovering from a good proper bike ride this morning so I guess there's that.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#452

Post by ninetyninenine »

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #220
ninetyninenine wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current system we have are as good as they get? You’re just making this statement out of thin air? Did you not notice a trendline of technological improvement of AI? > Sure, I probably could make something more effective, using non-LLM technologies (given a large enough budget), but… why would I, or anyone else, do that when it'd be obviously harmful, with no benefit? Technology will improve. The likelihood of yo…

> Profit and self interest often at the expense of everything else is what drives progress. Xerox PARC. Bell Labs. Academia. Wikipedia. You must have a rather narrow and useless definition of "progress".

>Xerox PARC. Bell Labs. Academia. Wikipedia. You must have a rather narrow and useless definition of "progress".

No i have a realistic definition of progress in capitalism. You must have a rather narrow brain and are unable to comprehend the difference between a realistic and practical application of "progress" versus an ideal that is unrealistic.

Bell labs, Xerox PARC are done. These labs existed because capitalist businesses were successful in their profitable endeavors AND could AFFORD side quests that were unprofitable. In the end these places were shuttered because they were unprofitable.

Now take a look at academia. Where does all that money come from? Taxes. Where do Taxes come from? Business and profit. Academic progress comes from business.

In fact all progress comes from business and profit. That's the general actuality. Of course there are exceptions, but that's just pedantism.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#453

Post by esseph »

Aurornis wrote: post #383
zhivota wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you're missing is that the activities you're doing were not the activities people were largely doing 10-20 years ago to be social. Going to bars was probably at least 100x more popular than hiking, so even if you see a 10x growth in hiking, if going to bars goes down even 10%, it dwarfs hiking's contribution to overall social activity of the population.

We have more bars than ever before. Existing bars have expanded a lot. Bars are crowded and some even have lines now.

This is very unique to the locale you are at, and the economic conditions of that area.

I am in a "top 20" US city and all of these things are in extreme decline.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#454

Post by kjkjadksj »

esseph wrote: post #440
anal_reactor wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bullshit. Most people can afford grabbing a beer in a supermarket and going to the park. They just choose not to. I think the real change is that nowadays it's just easier and more practical NOT to maintain friendships. Yes, it's lonely, but it's more efficient.

Public intoxication laws in the US prevent that in a lot of places

They go unenforced unless your party looks like a pack of belligerent teenagers. I drink in public all the time. Cops don’t like doing paperwork unless their hand is forced.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#455

Post by smith7018 »

bebeskids wrote: post #407
dv_dt wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Though it's popularized to blame social media and phones, economics should not be overlooked. Pay for young generations is lagging and restaurants and bar prices are super high. Public spaces for informal gatherings has shrunk - eg fewer malls

Parks, libraries are cheap and free and they're dead where I live, a metro area of 2+ million The only people I see out are families with grandpa in tow to pay for a mediocre overpriced wood fired pizza. No one has analog skills. Just social analysis skills. Very briefly dated a 39 year old who admitted she had never baked, boiled, or microwaved her own potato. Already got 2 kids. We reach endgame sooner in life. We…

That 39 year old woman anecdote is a strange addition. I know many 20-to-30-somethings that know how to cook. It's far too expensive to constantly eat out nowadays so people know how to provide for themselves in other ways. It sounds like you met a woman that didn't know how to cook and extrapolated that experience into thinking society is over and we're all helpless.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#456

Post by mgraczyk »

kjkjadksj wrote: post #443
mgraczyk wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't true in the US. Young people in US consume much more of those things you listed than people over 40 did at the same age. Young people have more purchasing power than previous generations. EDIT: Data from the fed and payroll providers show this overwhelmingly to be the case, but just to add some color/anecdote. I found all of the first jobs I had in highschool and just after. 3/3 of my first roles now adver…

A night out literally costs 5x as much as 10 years ago

First, young people make a lot more than they did 10 years ago (both nominally and inflation adjusted).

Second, no it does not cost 5x as much, closer to 15-20% more based on all the data I could find. Anecdotally in San Francisco, NYC, and Austin it is maybe 2x more at the most expensive places.

EDIT: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252882200Q

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#457

Post by CooCooCaCha »

simianparrot wrote: post #191
daymanstep wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For years, i tried to lose weight with gym and dieting. I failed, and now i know i probably never had a chance to, it was a scam all along. In what way is dieting a scam? You literally just eat less, and you will lose weight as long as you're on a calorie deficit.

I have yet to meet a single person that doesn't lose weight steadily but surely down to a healthy level by even just _attempting_ 16/8 intermittent fasting combined with at least 30 minutes of cardio every day -- even a brisk walk will do as long as it makes you warm and sweat. Even if you miss some days with cardio and only manage 12/12 with intermittent fasting some days, it's literally impossible for the body to g…

It’s not about fasting or even cardio, it’s about caloric restriction. Fasting reduces the calories you eat, and cardio increases the calories you burn.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#458

Post by bilbo0s »

andrepd wrote: post #411
bebeskids wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parks, libraries are cheap and free and they're dead where I live, a metro area of 2+ million The only people I see out are families with grandpa in tow to pay for a mediocre overpriced wood fired pizza. No one has analog skills. Just social analysis skills. Very briefly dated a 39 year old who admitted she had never baked, boiled, or microwaved her own potato. Already got 2 kids. We reach endgame sooner in life. We…

Parks and libraries are always full where I live, a metro area of 1.5mil.

Phew! I thought I was weird or something?

Parks, public pools, libraries and museums are the main things we do as a family. We also live in a metro of about 1.5 M. Maybe other metro areas charge for parks, libraries and museums?

Especially museums now I think about it? Museums in small metro areas can be free. Likely because there's nothing in them. (Still fun, just not as many exhibits as museums in large metro areas.) I mean, just imagine trying to run something like the Museum of Science and Industry, Museum of Natural History, or the Field Museum for free. I'm thinking at some point they would break down and have to start charging?

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#459

Post by pantalaimon »

cedws wrote: post #9
JKCalhoun wrote: post #3

I've been of the opinion that the web itself has already done this to a large degree. Web surfing (when is the last time you heard that phrase?) has never been a group activity.

There’s also doomscrolling. I genuinely think a large portion of Gen Z would rather stay in bed watching Instagram reels than go out to a bar or club. I’ve been wondering recently what impact banning social media would have on birth rates. I’m confident it would be positive but I’m not sure on what magnitude.

FOGO (fear of going out) is a thing

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#460

Post by 9rx »

HPsquared wrote: post #300
roncesvalles wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drinking outdoors (let alone at a public park) is just not a thing outside Europe.

Literally illegal in many places. Edit: including much of Europe.

Technically. Enforcement is nonexistent, though. Hell, I've had police officers hand me drinks in public on numerous occasions.
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