If this is an "invasion" then Trump should invoke Article 5 against all nations where the illegal immigrants originate from.
Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests
451–460 of 1001 posts
Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests
#452Because the CNN article seems to have accidentally omitted it, allow me to paste the full text of 18 U.S. Code § 1385, the Posse Comitatus Act: > Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army, the Navy, the Marine Corps, the Air Force, or the Space Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fi…
> except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress They are arguing there's an insurrenction in California.
We can actually read the argument, I don't know why people are linking to CNN: https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/06/depa...
The argument seems to be more of a no-confidence move because the Californians can't keep order. They'll presumably treat the wording seriously but I think the "form of rebellion" is more a jab at the people who keep harping on about insurrections. Looks like a bad argument from any angle I can think of (they aren't invited and there isn't an actual rebellion to put down).
Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests
#453Earlier quoted context omitted.
Recent anecdote from Popehat, about the 1992 riots in Los Angeles: > /4 So “cover me” to the LAPD means “if someone pops up with a gun and shoots at me, shoot at them.” Apparently to the Marines it means “lay down a curtain of suppressive fire using your rifles.” Hilarity ensued. https://bsky.app/profile/kenwhite.bsky.social/post/3lr2w7wo3...
> Apparently to the Marines it means “lay down a curtain of suppressive fire using your rifles.” Is that supposed to be a surprise to someone? What do you think "cover fire" is?
That’s why the post says “cover me”, not “cover fire”.
Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests
#454Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well I hate to disparage a large group of people, but how often have you spoken to an American who understands this type of social-legal history of the country, and values it? Although I know quite a lot of (what I consider) well-educated Americans, it is also the only country from which I regularly meet the type of person who doesn't care at all about how society works (also, technology, history, art, etc). You'll p…
> Well I hate to disparage a large group of people, but how often have you spoken to an American who understands this type of social-legal history of the country, and values it? Quite often, and the answer is not many. It's why I've returned to a frankly elitist worldview, because this seems to be a historical pattern when power is diffused too widely. The lesson of our age may be that the Chinese political system, w…
Why won't the Chinese system just collapse eventually? You have a small elite who perhaps currently are well-selected (besides the point) but what is preventing that elite from leaving the reins to someone who is not so good? With the added effect that the incompetent ruler will call upon the reputation for competence built up by previous rulers?
Seems like it's just cultural norms all the way down. If people want to take advantage of the system, they can break these norms while pretending to be what they used to be.
Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests
#455Earlier quoted context omitted.
> except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress They are arguing there's an insurrenction in California.
There isn't. So don't repeat this 'argument' like it has any substance whatsoever.
Is there an official definition? I'm not American but I'm looking at images of locals and foreign nationals burning down cities flying the Mexican flag. ChatGPT tells me the following:
> The authority for the President to use the military in cases of insurrection comes primarily from the Insurrection Act, codified in 10 U.S. Code §§ 251-255. This act provides the statutory exceptions to the Posse Comitatus Act.
> When unlawful obstructions, combinations, or assemblages, or rebellion against the authority of the United States, make it impracticable to enforce federal laws in any state by ordinary judicial proceedings. (10 U.S.C. § 252)
> When an insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy in a state hinders the execution of state and federal laws, depriving people of their constitutional rights, and the state authorities are unable, fail, or refuse to protect those rights. (10 U.S.C. § 253)
> When an insurrection opposes or obstructs the execution of U.S. laws or impedes the course of justice under those laws. (10 U.S.C. § 253)
The last time this Act was used was in 1992 during the Los Angeles riots and it withstood all legal contests. This time around it is a stated intent of these rioters to specifically obstruct federal law enforcement efforts. That's their stated goal which they are very consistent and very loud about in interviews. This clearly satisfies the criteria for the Insurrection Act.
I understand that this is a concerning action, but the law is black and white. If the U.S. and Congress and the House didn't want Presidents to have this power, the country has had more than 200 years to amend it.
Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests
#456Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because the system is designed to allow these people in a gray zone, so they do not have access to the same rights as citizens and therefore can be exploited. The problem is not illegal immigration. It's just a political football. Our economy would fily collapse without this cheap labor to exploit.
It would not collapase. But it would shift some purchaing power from the middle class to the working class if all of them would leave, as working class salaries would go up even faster than the inflatino it would cause.
Exactly. It would rebalance the value provided by blue collar work. They could finally demand a higher wage without being undercut by illegal workers.
Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests
#457Earlier quoted context omitted.
I worked for a company that verified I9’s and provided an eVerify integration for employers. I can’t explain what problem it solved. It was a multi-million dollar if-statement that copied the expertise of the relevant law into a permanently legacy expert system. Doing anything besides that would be illegal. But that also means there is no cross-referencing or vendor enforcement of fraud. It did things like check if s…
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as a non-American reading this, only reaction can be... "WTF?!"
can you elaborate on that?
centralized systems for identity are used all over the f world, and de-facto you have them in the US too (hello credit cards, hello driver licenses, hello... SIM card?)... they can be used as _tools_ by regimes with fascist tendencies, but their existence alone is quite neutral
ALL countries with functional governments NEED centralized identity systems to function (hello... IRS?), and they all get them even if you like to pretend they don't exist.
...why not just accept they are there, and focus on properly securing them from attacks, making them unalterable by corrupt officials (from simple checksumming and write-only permanent archives to full-on blockchain solutions), and preventing unrestricted access to them, all technically doable.
If you PRETEND you don't have a centralized identity system, don't you just leave all these problems unfixed and just go on with a broken system forever?
Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests
#458[deleted]
Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests
#459Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's terrifying, certainly. One man was taken into custody for allegedly throwing a Molotov cocktail at an officer and a motorcyclist was arrested for ramming a police skirmish line. https://www.yahoo.com/news/kill-l-police-attacked-fireworks-... Los Angeles County Sheriff Robert Luna said "you had people who were...attacking police officers, deputy sheriffs and causing a lot of destruction." The 101 Freeway shut dow…
I can't overstate how absolutely separate this is from reality. Yes there are protests, largely peaceful and in a tremendously small part of Los Angeles. In fact, in terms of sheer size, its less than half the size, in sq miles, of the fires in January. Rocks / debris came after tear gas. The news has been startling in its mis-coverage.
> Yes there are protests, largely peaceful and in a tremendously small part of Los Angeles.
Firey but mostly peaceful protests are happening all over again. No, burning down cities is not peaceful. After just a few days, at least five officers, several journalists, and we don't know how many rioters have been injured so far. We don't yet have estimates of property damage, but tens of millions would be conservative. Similar riots have resulted in hundreds of millions in damages.
When the right does this, we call it what it is: violent riots. We acknowledge it's wrong to attempt to prevent the government carrying out its the duties it was democratically elected to carry out. We should hold that standard to the left as well. These rioters are anti-democratic.
Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests
#460Earlier quoted context omitted.
GOP and Dems have been nearly evenly matched for years in Congress now. There was no prospect of dramatic legal overhaul i.m.o., let alone any new Constitutional amendments. Graph: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_divisions_of_United_Stat...
And they're still nearly evenly matched and Trump is still doing what he's doing. The Democrats could have done all the same stuff Trump is doing, but for good instead of evil. The problem is that the Democrats are not willing to accept that the system is entirely broken, so they keep clinging to a belief in "institutions" that they think will somehow magically protect us, when in fact those institutions are destroyi…
>but for good instead of evil
A lot of people have decided that what Trump is doing is good. A lot have decided that it is evil. It is not so clear cut.