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Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

telegraph.co.uk

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Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#451

Post by godelski »

StopDisinfo910 wrote: post #424
wyager wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think if you've put in 40-45 years for the man, you should be allowed to have some good 10 years for yourself. Who do you think would "allow" this? God? This is a resource constraint imposed by reality itself catching up to an excessively idealistic set of policies; this policy decision is downstream of that, not arbitrary.

It is entirely arbitrary. Society heavily favours capital above labour. That’s why we have very rich inheritors never working and people toiling until they are 70. It’s entirely a choice. This issue has solutions we collectively decide not to put in place.

Funny that we have a ton of people asking what people would do in a post scarce society. Stating that man needs work. Yet, it also seems to be said most by the people who have been free from the need to labor for generations. They still do, they still desire more, yet their lives are certainly post scarce. Hell, the whole goal of retirement is to become post scarce, and have a few years where you can live without the need to labor. Seems like we already have some decent evidence to what such a world would look like.

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#452

Post by LightHugger »

8fingerlouie wrote: post #382
manmal wrote: post #288

Where I live, people have issues getting hired past age 50, and it’s near impossible past age 60. It’s a stroke of luck if you score a job then. So yes they can raise retirement age, but that will just create misery for all those who can’t cling to a job long enough. There‘s got to be a better way.

In Denmark, you also have to have a medical exam to maintain your drivers license after you turn 70, but they have no problem with carpenters running around on roofs until they're 74.

That makes perfect sense though?

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#453

Post by nextos »

seydor wrote: post #365
enra wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ozempic & Novo Nordisk contributes something like 2% of the economic growth.

they were rich before ozempic

Actually, the Danish economy was a lot more interesting (read more complex and diverse) a decade or two decades ago. Lots of mid-sized engineering companies, for instance. The government is rightly worried about things becoming a Novo Nordisk monoculture, becoming fragile, and ending up like Finland. Novo Nordisk is facing tough competition from Eli Lilly and many other pharmas, who have better GLP-1 drugs but were slower in their development.

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#454

Post by [deleted] »

wyager wrote: post #414
amag wrote: post #409

This is truly sad. As a Swede I fear my country may follow suite. The retirement age in Sweden used to be 65 and now it's 67. Looking at older people around me, most lead a much less active life after 75. So, if we were lucky we used to have some 10 good years of doing whatever we wanted before old age and age-related diseases start affecting us so much we become limited to a much smaller world. But now we have maybe…

> I think if you've put in 40-45 years for the man, you should be allowed to have some good 10 years for yourself. Who do you think would "allow" this? God? This is a resource constraint imposed by reality itself catching up to an excessively idealistic set of policies; this policy decision is downstream of that, not arbitrary.

[deleted]

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#455

Post by amag »

tossandthrow wrote: post #440
amag wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course there is no guarantee that your 65-75 years will be good, but it's a lot more likely that your 65-75 years will be good than your 75-85 years.

The point is, that the society does not owe you 10 years to do whatever.

You mean I can't sue society if I die nine years into retirement?

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#456

Post by toomuchtodo »

gessha wrote: post #423
amag wrote: post #409

This is truly sad. As a Swede I fear my country may follow suite. The retirement age in Sweden used to be 65 and now it's 67. Looking at older people around me, most lead a much less active life after 75. So, if we were lucky we used to have some 10 good years of doing whatever we wanted before old age and age-related diseases start affecting us so much we become limited to a much smaller world. But now we have maybe…

Back when it was first introduced, it was based on life expectancy and few were expected to live beyond retirement age. [1] [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/10/how-ret...

Turns out retirement is just an illusion to convince you to give your best years for the system.

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#457

Post by kenver »

I think it’s important to remember that you don’t have to wait until you retire to live your life. Finding a balance between your work and personal life is the most important thing to get sorted as early as you can. This looks different for everyone.

Sure you can climb a mountain, or cram in life experiences at 60+ if you’re in good health, but I think it’s better to do it as you go and enjoy your entire life.

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#458

Post by jongjong »

intothemild wrote: post #425
amag wrote: post #409

This is truly sad. As a Swede I fear my country may follow suite. The retirement age in Sweden used to be 65 and now it's 67. Looking at older people around me, most lead a much less active life after 75. So, if we were lucky we used to have some 10 good years of doing whatever we wanted before old age and age-related diseases start affecting us so much we become limited to a much smaller world. But now we have maybe…

There's only one issue I can think of with your idea that someone who is 75 now leads a life as you're describing. The generation they belong to are predicted to live to what 80-85 years? Whilst we (assuming you're in your 40's now) are predicted to get to what 90-95 on average? Average lifespans are increasing, and on top of that the mobility of someone who's 75 now, won't be the same of someone who's 75 in another…

Poorer individuals, who need retirement most, don't tend to live as long. Millennials and Gen Z are already victims of old, no-longer-applicable narratives (e.g. save cash, avoid debt, go to college...) and these ones about life expectancy will likely be added to the pile and used to disenfranchise us more while having no connection to reality.

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#459

Post by bachmeier »

charcircuit wrote: post #307

What's stopping people from just saving up money and stop working before 70?

From the bit of research I did on the Danish pension system, workers pay heavy taxes during their working years, and some of that is paid back to them in the form of a universal pension. In addition, almost all workers are covered by mandatory occupational pensions, with contributions of 9-17% of annual earnings.

That probably eats up the available savings for most workers. This change locks that money away until age 70.

Contrast that with the US, where Social Security is designed to replace an average of only 30% of a worker's income (much more at the lowest income levels), and you can take it as early as age 62. The most common retirement plans are 401k, 403b, 457b, and IRA. You can pull from any of them without penalty at age 59.5, and from the retirement plan of the company you're working for if you retire at 55 or later.

As I understand it, those ages would all be 70 in Denmark, and yeah it would be terrible. Not many people in the US are still working at age 70. Almost nobody doing serious physical work is still working at age 70.

* My information about Denmark's system may be wrong.

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#460

Post by markvdb »

tmnvix wrote: post #315
soerxpso wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In 1930 Keynes projected that by 2000 their grandchildren could work 15 hours per week This projection came true. You can live with a 1930s living standard while working 15 hours per week at a median wage. However, nobody wants to live at a 1930s living standard. It turns out that in aggregate people prefer to spend productivity gains on conveniences and higher standards of living than on working fewer hours.

> This projection came true. You can live with a 1930s living standard while working 15 hours per week at a median wage. Maybe not if you want to own a home. Asset price inflation is real. If you already own a home, sure.

- Asset inflation can be tackled with flexibility. The level of flexibility my acquaintance showed is not required. He bought a fixer-upper two apartment building with a garden in a livable small walkable eurozone city for 5k€.

- The productivity growth really has had incredibly strong deflationary effects. So much more, more diverse, tastier and healthier food for example, for so much less money.

- The growing affluence has really created incredible opportunities for scavenging from the waste stream. A practical example. About half of the food I eat is leftovers from a nearby school. I'm proud to be saving good food from going to waste _and_ it lowers our expenses quite significantly.

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