I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt • Hacker News Board

Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt

#451

Post by freehorse » Tue, May 06, 2025, 10:11 AM UTC

kerkeslager wrote: post #295

giantg2 wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not a real argument. There are plenty of assistance programs, including free school lunches.

How many assistance programs have you applied for? Frankly, if you haven't applied for any, your opinion is uninformed. Even people who are told how difficult it is, underestimate how difficult it is to apply for many programs. I've helped a bunch of homeless folks apply to assistance programs (not for school lunches, but for a lot of other aid) and almost universally, applying for aid is extremely difficult. I've wa…

That's also in the heart of the issue, having arbitrary thresholds and obscure bureaucracy here makes it easier also to restrict or even close down such a subsidised program, which can be harder when a permanent program of free school lunches has been established.

Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt

#452

Post by RS-232 » Tue, May 06, 2025, 10:14 AM UTC

mobtrain wrote: post #402

mtnGoat wrote: post #343

As someone who experienced this first hand growing up. I consider how someone feels about free school lunch, a basic test of their humanity. If you think kids should go hungry or be embarrassed at school because of their parents finances… we can’t be friends, nor acquaintances. IMHO, you are subhuman at that point and not worth my time. My dad believed that because he paid taxes he shouldn’t have to pay the school to…

While I wholeheartedly agree that no child should ever go hungry and school lunches should be free (from a EU country, this isn’t even a thing here), if you call people subhuman, we can't be friends, nor acquaintances.

Subhuman is a rather severe (and incredibly reductionist) judgement. Sure, being anti-free lunch for children is morally objectionable… but they’ve failed to probe that line of reasoning. They’ve encountered a bug, but instead of debugging it, they’ve closed their IDE and walked away.

Sometimes an honest conversation—with carefully placed, introspective questions—can be revealing to all parties. When we use our tongues to learn about others and build them up rather than tear them down, we’re actively making the world a better place. When we resist the tendency to judge others, we’re actively bettering ourselves.

Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt

#453

Post by cess11 » Tue, May 06, 2025, 10:15 AM UTC

blueflow wrote: post #449

mtnGoat wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except this isn’t a political issue, it’s humanitarian and basic empathy. Never said anyone should be removed from earth, that’s quite the projection, but go on.

Basic empathy, except for those folks you disagree with. Maybe they just lack an perspective? Maybe you just need to point out one or two things and they understand?

A few days ago you posted comments where you questioned whether it was appropriate to apply lessons from the Holocaust when interpreting contemporary state policies, and that some Wikipedia "spree" convinced you that it wasn't appropriate.

This likely means that you consider current starvation campaigns with exterminationist aims more defensible than 'der Hungerplan' and Vernichtungskrieg of the Holocaust. To me this makes you "one of the baddies". The attempt to exterminate the palestinians or the attacks on sudanese refugees and civilian infrastructure or the bombing campaigns against civilian targets in Yemen are, in principle, at least as indefensible as the starvation tactics of the german eastern advance during WWII.

Those responsible should ideally be brought to the ICC or related tribunals and tried for their crimes. You disagree, judging from your comments in that thread.

What would it take to change your mind?

Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt

#454

Post by subscribed » Tue, May 06, 2025, 10:18 AM UTC

askonomm wrote: post #366

mtnGoat wrote: post #343

As someone who experienced this first hand growing up. I consider how someone feels about free school lunch, a basic test of their humanity. If you think kids should go hungry or be embarrassed at school because of their parents finances… we can’t be friends, nor acquaintances. IMHO, you are subhuman at that point and not worth my time. My dad believed that because he paid taxes he shouldn’t have to pay the school to…

This is wild to me. In Estonia school lunches are free for everyone, paid by the taxpayer. Doesn't matter if you are poor or wealthy, everybody gets the same food.

By the most metric Estonia is the creme de la creme of the decent democracy of the compassionate people.

Yeah, this is wild.

Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt

#455

Post by blueflow » Tue, May 06, 2025, 10:23 AM UTC

cess11 wrote: post #453

blueflow wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basic empathy, except for those folks you disagree with. Maybe they just lack an perspective? Maybe you just need to point out one or two things and they understand?

A few days ago you posted comments where you questioned whether it was appropriate to apply lessons from the Holocaust when interpreting contemporary state policies, and that some Wikipedia "spree" convinced you that it wasn't appropriate. This likely means that you consider current starvation campaigns with exterminationist aims more defensible than 'der Hungerplan' and Vernichtungskrieg of the Holocaust. To me this…

No, it means that i use the word "Holocaust" exclusively for this specific genocide. It follows that the rest of your comment doesn't apply.

Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt

#456

Post by ljf » Tue, May 06, 2025, 10:23 AM UTC

pertymcpert wrote: post #424

aembleton wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't you have taken a packed lunch in? Make a sandwich and take it with you.

The fact that you think this is a seriously practical suggestion shows that, very fortunately for you, you have no idea what goes in a household like this. I say this with sincerity, it's a good thing that you don't realize the problem with this suggestion.

Agree - if my 10yo son was in charge of getting his own food for school from our well stocked fridge, I know he'd struggle to get any kind of balance.

I know from friends in education who see kids come to school who have had to try to find food to bring in. I live in a relatively well off area but kids still come to school with stuff like just dry bread or a single cereal bar as there just isn't anything to hand for them to bring in for school - looking after their kids welfare isn't a given for a sad and sizeable minority.

Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt

#457

Post by pmg101 » Tue, May 06, 2025, 10:27 AM UTC

lukan wrote: post #400

LandR wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you want to look at it from a purely selfish point of view... if you want to live in a good, prosperous society, this starts with childrens education. A well fed, happy, well slept child is an ideal here to get them the best education they can. Not wanting each child to get the best possible start in life makes absolutely no sense to me. But yes, no child should go hungry at school.

"Not wanting each child to get the best possible start in life makes absolutely no sense to me." Maybe to lower the chances of other children against your own (wealthy) offspring? So from a very selfish individualistic perspective there is sense? I suspect that might be the base motivation, even though you likely won't find many openly stating that or even are aware of it.

It could do but only for the kids that would be competing closely with your own children, so of a similar socioeconomic status.

For children from much poorer backgrounds it's more likely that making their prospects even worse will just create later negative impacts on society, such as crime, drug addiction, prostitution, gang violence and so on.

Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt

#458

Post by framapotari » Tue, May 06, 2025, 10:29 AM UTC

0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #414

camgunz wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are no moral hazards when it comes to social welfare programs. People really think there are, but every time we look we find practically no freeloaders. This idea that we have to threaten people with literal starvation to get them to be productive members of society is ironically deeply impoverished. And if we really think that's true, why do we let people accrue wealth at all? Why do we then think that the mos…

>People really think there are, but every time we look we find practically no freeloaders. I don't believe that is true. You didn't provide any support for your claim at all either. Let's just consider a single example: >In the past three decades, the number of Americans who are on disability has skyrocketed. The rise has come even as medical advances have allowed many more people to remain on the job, and new laws h…

> I'm in favor of free school lunches for kids. But I'm very annoyed with the strawmanning in this thread. For example, it seems like a strawman to say that people who are against free school lunches "want kids to go hungry". Maybe they just believe that parents should be responsible rather than the state.

If parents are responsible then the children of the parents who can't or won't provide will go hungry. That is a fact. You may not _want_ children to go hungry but if you advocate for that system then you are absolutely okay with a number of children going hungry.

Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt

#459

Post by sensanaty » Tue, May 06, 2025, 10:31 AM UTC

t0bia_s wrote: post #369

hiddencost wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why we have taxes. Because we can assess how much each person can afford to pay, and then make collective decisions that can't be made by inefficient free market mechanisms.

[flagged]

As someone whose family fled from the ex-socialist state of Yugoslavia (well I guess the state itself was socialist, and the ex- part applies to the country itself, but you get what I mean) - who is very much against socialism - this is an absurd connection to make. We're talking about making sure kids have something to eat at the school they go to every day, not giving the workers the means of production. Not everything has to have a profit incentive, and not everything that doesn't make profit can be classed as socialism.

Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt

#460

Post by choeger » Tue, May 06, 2025, 10:36 AM UTC

What I don't get about lunch in school is where this assumption comes from that it has to be a warm and complete meal, ideally with starter and dessert.

I am really wondering about that. School is more like an office job than a construction site or other heavy work and thus would not a sandwich and a salad be more appropriate? It would be much easier to offer good quality this way, especially when it comes to fruits and vegetables. The stuff you get when cooking with a limited budget for hundreds of people is seldom good or healthy.