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On loyalty to your employer (2018)

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Re: On loyalty to your employer (2018)

#451

Post by 542354234235 »

robertlagrant wrote: post #305
542354234235 wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You shouldn’t bet your life that a mega-corp has absolute and utter loyalty to you. But your mega corp doesn't have loyalty to you. They have loyalty to their shareholders, and you are a means to that end. The shareholders are the spouse, and you are just the person they paid to make the yearly birthday present. If a little flattery gets them a better price, then they flatter. If their spouse's interests change, you…

> you are just the person they paid to make the yearly birthday present Equally, if you presenting yourself well and negotiating well gets you a better wage to make that birthday present, then you should do those things. It's a two-way street.

But that isn’t loyalty, that is just transactional, which is exactly what people are advocating for when dealing with a corporate employer.

> loyalty for a company is concept to make you work harder without asking anything in return. And the moment the company shifts focus and you are out of it, then suddenly you understand that this loyalty wasn't kind of a credits account which you've been saving all this time. It's simply nothing.

This is what you were responding to, which is not transactional. You are loyal to your spouse (to a point) because you trust her to have your best interests in mind and be aligned in the common goal of improving life for you both. A corporation’s spouse is the shareholder and has their best interests in mind, not the employee.

Re: On loyalty to your employer (2018)

#452

Post by kermatt »

mystraline wrote: post #338
kermatt wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The term loyalty is dangerous for an employee. Having seen companies of all sizes lay people off for the exact same reason - Returns did not match expectations - my personal perspective is to treat all employers the same. No company with a balance sheet is loyal to employees. Keeping that idea in mind, and thus on an equal perspective, is healthy for both sides. "It's just business" is good advice and not just in mov…

I applied to a job in the 'Who's Hiring' thread this month. Had an interview. I'm a professional good at my craft, with tenure at hard positions. I get hit with "we don't just want someone who checks in does work and leaves, 9 to 5". Like, are you wanting 60h/week and pay 40h/week? Or is this you're not wanting a slacker? Or better yet, since you want skin in the game on my side, what's my equity as a partner? My und…

> "we don't just want someone who checks in does work and leaves, 9 to 5"

I do. I want people to work a normal day. The alternative is they run into a wall of fatigue at the worst times, and call out sick.

I can plan a project around five 8 hour days a week. I can't plan around 60+ hours one week, and (unknown) hours some future week.

Re: On loyalty to your employer (2018)

#453

Post by nemomarx »

eikenberry wrote: post #406
nemomarx wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

coops have great difficulty raising money, and this is a VC forum.

That would explain way they aren't discussed here to much but doesn't explain why there aren't more out there.

Well, a difficulty raising money makes starting them hard too. I mostly know of successful worker coops in businesses like grocery stores that have somewhat predictable margins, flexible pricing, and not a strong incentive to expand. It seems to work well for the employees in those coops at least, and they're pleasant to shop in.

Re: On loyalty to your employer (2018)

#454

Post by stogot »

PicassoCTs wrote: post #418
int_19h wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that in a small company, it's the owner who is abusing you (or not). It's all down to the qualities of the person itself. In a large company, it happens regardless of the qualities of the people involve, because it's baked into the processes. Good-natured people can mitigate it to some extent, but they cannot prevent it.

Often enough good natured people become the teflon coating for bad processes.

What does the teflon coating metaphor mean?

Re: On loyalty to your employer (2018)

#455

Post by ycombinatrix »

trefoiled wrote: post #259

There's an exception to this I've seen since a relative started working in the game industry. There are executives in that industry who have a retinue of loyal followers. The studios the executive works for may change regularly, but his followers come with him each time. These workers will spend their entire career serving one man, and in exchange he always has a job lined up for them and seems to trust them the same…

That happens in the tech industry too.

Re: On loyalty to your employer (2018)

#456

Post by [deleted] »

kubb wrote: post #196
martindbp wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would _much_ rather live in a nice house in a nice area with exciting things to do from my mid 20's onwards and enjoy those things for years and years and years, rather than live in a smaller/cheaper/farther out place so that I can retire 10 years earlier and start living. That's a false dichotomy. You can retire at least 25-30 years earlier than normal if you are a bit mindful of your spending and earn a decent…

If normal is 65, then you’re saying you can retire at 35. I have a great salary and I pretty much don’t spend except necessities (rent, food, clothes, healthcare). I’m not even close.

[deleted]

Re: On loyalty to your employer (2018)

#457

Post by averageRoyalty »

CharlieDigital wrote: post #35
paulcole wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the person just doesn’t care about swimming with whales or having friends? Does everybody really think the dense Amazon jungle is neat? You’re projecting what you think makes life worth living onto someone else. Can you really not imagine that for another person working is what they love as much as you seem to love climbing snowy mountains? > Life is too short I agree with this. It’s too short to think about ho…

You're missing the forest for the trees. You have one lifetime on this Earth and it is a big place with many experiences and sights. Do not regret in the end that you exchanged too much of that one lifetime for money rather than enriching it with many experiences be it with family, friends, or even by oneself.

Millions of people have lived lives they have found very fulfilling within 20km of where they were born. It's great you're finding a joy in travelling the world, but not everyone wants that.

Many people work until they die and still have friends and family that they love and spend time with. Many even have none and still lead a life they're happy with.

Re: On loyalty to your employer (2018)

#459

Post by electrosphere »

brookside wrote: post #53
CharlieDigital wrote: post #4

> “When I’m on my deathbed, I won’t look back at my life and wish I had worked harder. I’ll look back and wish I spent more time with the people I loved.” I saw a Reddit thread the other day on r/startups or r/entrepreneur where the OP was talking about how they'll be working until the day he or she dies. I immediately wondered if this individual had a family, friends. Had this person already seen the world and its m…

Honestly - leave the whale, jungles, and over-touristed Tokyo-ites alone. Travel lightly, get a feel for different environments and cultures, then take that perspective to your hometown. Travel is frosting. The cake can be building a meaningful life that involves community, maybe family, and possibly meaningful work.

I worked remotely from Tenerife last year. I was there two months, at first it was great, everything new and novel. But it wears off and towards the end of my stay I longed for home, community and my usual routine.

The best balance is occaisonal "pattern interrupts" like travel abroad (or within your own country). You do not necessarily need big sweeping vacations or "experiences". A bike ride in a forest for a few days with a friend you have not seen for months can give you that mental refreshment.

Re: On loyalty to your employer (2018)

#460

Post by person101x »

Once upon a time there was an ethos that employers, which were at that time called lords, had a duty and responsibility for the good of their employees, who were called serfs or peasants, and vice versa.

While nobody is advocating a return to that particular social structure, would it not be out of the realm of possibility for a similar ethos to be cultivated among leaders and employers?

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