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The Burnout Machine

unionize.fyi

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Re: The Burnout Machine

#451

Post by ForTheKidz »

delichon wrote: post #54

When I was a high school teacher you either had to belong to the union (CTA) or pay the same dues anyway, and the difference was that they didn't let you vote. I felt that about 90% of the dues were used against me and the students. That was the other big reason I quit, besides the low pay, which the union didn't fix. So I moved on to become a much higher paid developer who has zero pressure to join a union. My dad w…

> I'm happier making my own deal with the boss.

And i bet your boss is even happier!

Re: The Burnout Machine

#453

Post by ForTheKidz »

protonbob wrote: post #20

The author seems to think that everybody works this way. In reality, many of us work 40-45 hour weeks with no on call and low amounts of meetings. These jobs are in the boring (military, banking, insurance etc) sectors but I make a good, not great, living.

The dysfunction at those places is more than enough to cause burnout by itself. Source: I work at one such job now.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#454

Post by ForTheKidz »

stared wrote: post #100

Software engineering is one of the ways of playing life in "easy mode" (I moved from academia over a decade ago, and I know the difference). This blog post tries to paint it differently - and it feels like it lacks perspective compared to virtually any other occupation. > We’re living in a world where billion dollar tech companies expect us to live and breathe code, demanding 80 hour weeks under the guise of "passion…

Eh, most of the benefits are offset by the stress of having to care about the needs of corporate america and all the ensuing implications of making a living by destroying society. Just because it's not a physical job doesn't mean this stress won't kill you.

It's also worth noting that developers remain some of the most proportionately under-compensated jobs compared to the revenue we drive and we're all aware of it. It's the shareholders that need to justify their existence.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#455

Post by KronisLV »

stared wrote: post #100

Software engineering is one of the ways of playing life in "easy mode" (I moved from academia over a decade ago, and I know the difference). This blog post tries to paint it differently - and it feels like it lacks perspective compared to virtually any other occupation. > We’re living in a world where billion dollar tech companies expect us to live and breathe code, demanding 80 hour weeks under the guise of "passion…

> But let's not paint ourselves, members of one of the most privileged occupations, as victims of the global system.

Everyone can be victims of the "global system" at the same time, even if not to equal degrees.

I live in Latvia. Teachers here are underpaid. So are firefighters. So are nurses. So are software developers, compared to most other countries, or even with what people could historically afford on a single salary. The economy could be worse, but it also kinda sucks for everyone.

Using housing prices as a quick example:

> U.S. home prices are rising significantly faster than incomes. After accounting for inflation, home prices jumped 118% from 1965 to 2021, while income had only increased by 15%.

from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeownership_in_the_United_St...

> Between 2010 and the third quarter of 2023, house prices increased by 48% and rents by 22%. When comparing the third quarter of 2023 with 2010, house prices increased more than rents in 18 out of the 27 EU countries.

> Over this period, house prices more than tripled in Estonia (+210%) and more than doubled in Hungary (+185%), Lithuania (+158%), Latvia (+141%), Austria (+123%), Czechia (+122%) and Luxembourg (+107%). Decreases were observed in Greece (-14%, see methodological notes), Italy (-8%) and Cyprus (-2%).

> Rents increased in 26 EU countries with the highest rises in Estonia (+218%), Lithuania (+170%) and Ireland (+100%). The only decrease in rent prices was recorded in Greece (-20%). Latvia's rent increase was more modest than its house price increase at around 50%.

from https://eng.lsm.lv/article/economy/economy/11.01.2024-latvia... (more recent data, but the trend is pretty clear)

> According to Money.com.au, house prices have skyrocketed nationally by 3435 per cent since 1975 compared with just 1183 per cent growth in full-time wages.

from https://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/interest-rates/proof...

Seems pretty global, same with the prices of various goods being more or less out of control, education costs, healthcare costs, everything. It doesn't mean that my profession isn't privileged in many ways, I still try to help my friends when I can.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#456

Post by InsideOutSanta »

x3n0ph3n3 wrote: post #389
InsideOutSanta wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main thing a union does is shift power from the employer to the employee. How that power is used is up to each union, and its members.

It does no such thing. It shifts power from the employer to the union bosses.

The union members (i.e., the employees) give that power to the "union boss." Not all unions work like that (some do not have a traditional union leader), and for those who do, having a powerful union leader can be a good or a bad thing, depending on who gets elected as the union leader by the union members.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#457

Post by PeterStuer »

stared wrote: post #100

Software engineering is one of the ways of playing life in "easy mode" (I moved from academia over a decade ago, and I know the difference). This blog post tries to paint it differently - and it feels like it lacks perspective compared to virtually any other occupation. > We’re living in a world where billion dollar tech companies expect us to live and breathe code, demanding 80 hour weeks under the guise of "passion…

"I moved from academia over a decade ago, and I know the difference"

Pressures are different indeed, but let's not pretend academia of all places is any less "priviledged"

Btw, most professors age well into retirement. Trying to find a software engineer over 55 is looking for a needle in a haystack that definitely will not make it past the next boom/bust cycle.

Agism in this field is endemic, probably the worst of any in knowledge work.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#458

Post by kavalg »

captainbland wrote: post #218
ActorNightly wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think one thing that needs to be understood better is the concept of "burnout". I can explain it pretty well. You can classify pretty much all jobs into 2 categories - map lookups and reasoning. A map lookup job is something where you learn to associate a specific problem with a solution. Most jobs are like this. You go work in construction, its pretty much map lookup - supervisor tells you to go prep the concrete…

My experience with burnout doesn't really gel with this. I find map lookup style tasks as you describe them pretty draining and the reasoning tasks relatively more energising. But generally what actually causes burnout for me is a sense of pointlessness, that the work is nothing but the pay because it's, for example, just some B2B finance adjacent system or something.

Great comments from both of you. I will also add the (unsupportive) environment and uncertainty for the future as major factors IMHO.

One should also consider the "outside" environment. We jumped from covid right into war without a break in between and now we are being told that we will be replaced by AI, while expecting the stock market to crash and increase unemployment. Ah and also the inflation (wage reduction) that has been going on for the last five years and doesn't show a sign of stopping.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#460

Post by goodpoint »

stared wrote: post #100

Software engineering is one of the ways of playing life in "easy mode" (I moved from academia over a decade ago, and I know the difference). This blog post tries to paint it differently - and it feels like it lacks perspective compared to virtually any other occupation. > We’re living in a world where billion dollar tech companies expect us to live and breathe code, demanding 80 hour weeks under the guise of "passion…

> Software engineering is one of the ways of playing life in "easy mode"

...if you are born in US, maybe, but "somebody else has it worse" is pure whataboutism.

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