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HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

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Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#451

Post by neonsunset »

LtWorf wrote: post #448
neonsunset wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you link to anything recent which could support your argument?

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/api/system.diagnost... Look at this garbage API that for no reason whatsoever mirrors winapi on posix for example. Then after you painfully wrote your linux application despite all of that, you find out that .net is not included by any linux distribution, so have fun distributing your app!

I'm not sure why you are reading the docs sideways but just in case - C# has method overloading. Process API, while dated, simply offers multiple overloads suitable for different scenarios.

Launching a new process can be as easy as `Process.Start(path, args)`.

Although if you are doing this, I can recommend using CliWrap package instead which provides nicer UX. Anything is possible the second you stop looking for a strawman.

> you find out that .net is not included by any linux distribution

Would I? If it's a CLI or a GUI application, I'd distribute it as either a native binary or as the recipe the user will be easily able to build with the .NET SDK (which is a standard approach - you'd need Rustc and Cargo in the same way).

Lastly - no one wants to put up with the maintainers with such attitude and you know well enough that "not included in any linux distribution" is both provably false and a non-factor - in all the distributions that matter it is `sudo {package manager} install dotnet9` away :)

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#452

Post by LtWorf »

johnisgood wrote: post #243
neonsunset wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I edited it because it's not just my own experience of dealing with this. On twitter, I follow a couple Japanese developers from mainly gamedev scene and even they complain they started hearing more about "but it only works on windows" and "it's not open-source". Don't you find it strange that it should be the other way around the more years pass since .NET went OSS? The link itself is also quite outdated and mainly…

I assumed .NET is Windows-only and proprietary, too, but it has to do with me not having done enough research, so if it is not the case anymore, the blame is on me.

It's not windows only but it's windows first. A lot of things are missing on other OSs and not nearly all of it is open source.

Fanboys are a bit in denial about this.

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#453

Post by LtWorf »

varjag wrote: post #274
CharlieDigital wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> GitHub was purchased, which is a bit different. Why is that different? The purchase was 7 years ago (?) at this point. Do we make an exemption for SharePoint because it, too, is an extension of FrontPage acquired via Vermeer?[0] At what point does it lose its exemption from "Hate All Things Microsoft"? 10 years? 20 years? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_FrontPage

Github looks and works mostly indistinguishable from how it was 7 years ago.

Uh? That's not the case at all. It even has popup ads for copilot now.

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#454

Post by kccqzy »

kllrnohj wrote: post #435
kccqzy wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh many purist networking geeks joined large corporations so that these corporations began to push IPv6 in a direction set by the geeks. They understood that as independent geeks they have essentially no say in the evolution of IPv6. My favorite example here is Android refusing to support stateful DHCPv6; it's clear that it's being pushed by purist networking geeks inside Google.

> My favorite example here is Android refusing to support stateful DHCPv6; it's clear that it's being pushed by purist networking geeks inside Google. If you read the huge bug on it, Google's counter argument is stateful dhcpv6 significantly complicates tethering to the point of needing an ipv6 nat. That's a very practical position to take, hardly "purist network objectionists"

So what? The Linux kernel already supports NAT66. Android uses the Linux kernel. I use Tailscale and when I use an IPv6-only node as the exit node, NAT66 is being used. Use `ip6tables -t nat -vnL` to check. You can also grep for `v6nat = true` in Tailscale logs.

It's those purists at Google that decide that NAT66 is evil and should not be used and therefore they have chosen not to support stateful DHCPv6.

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#455

Post by kccqzy »

kiwijamo wrote: post #407
kccqzy wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh many purist networking geeks joined large corporations so that these corporations began to push IPv6 in a direction set by the geeks. They understood that as independent geeks they have essentially no say in the evolution of IPv6. My favorite example here is Android refusing to support stateful DHCPv6; it's clear that it's being pushed by purist networking geeks inside Google.

With IPv6 RAs, there's no need for DHCPv6. I don't use it at all and I use IPv6 just fine on mobile. One place where DHCPv6 may make some sense is the router WAN/ISP connection. However once your router has a IPv6 prefix, it can easily advertise it on your LAN/WLAN for devices to capture it via IPv6 RAs for its IPv6 autoconfiguration which Just Works. Given that Android devices will attach to a WLAN router (and not d…

My home network doesn't use stateful DHCPv6 either. I agree there's no need.

The bigger thing is carrying this "you don't need it" attitude to a product used by billions. Thousands of network operators who do not believe in "you don't need it" are now forced to make their network work for Android. If those purists had guts they should go to the IETF and formally deprecate stateful DHCPv6.

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#456

Post by neonsunset »

LtWorf wrote: post #447
hypeatei wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty it's just: sudo apt-get install dotnet-sdk-9.0 No?

That comes after adding an untrusted 3rd party repository no? Why are you omitting that part? Which means that nothing written in .net will enter the real repository until that changes.

Because in the relevant distros it is included in the first-party feeds. Only Debian acts like a special snowflake making it needlessly complex for everyone (including Rust). I believe there is an ongoing work to modify .NET's full source build (i.e. https://github.com/dotnet/source-build) to satisfy Debian's admission requirements, but really it's a problem inflicted by Debian on themselves, not the other way around.

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#457

Post by [deleted] »

gkbrk wrote: post #175
RKFADU_UOFCCLEL wrote: post #173

> At the same time, neither QUIC nor HTTP/3 are included in the standard libraries of any major languages including Node.js, Go, Rust, Python or Ruby. Curl recently gained supportopens in a new tab but it's experimental and disabled in most distributions. That doesn't matter too much, since a certain "security" company is doing deep packet inspection and blocking anything that isn't Firefox, Chrome, or Safari.

It's not even doing that right. I regularly see the same page blocked in Firefox while not being blocked in Chrome, on the same IP and device. Basically if your browser provides even a tiny bit of privacy, Cloudflare blocks it randomly.

[deleted]

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#458

Post by RKFADU_UOFCCLEL »

gkbrk wrote: post #175
RKFADU_UOFCCLEL wrote: post #173

> At the same time, neither QUIC nor HTTP/3 are included in the standard libraries of any major languages including Node.js, Go, Rust, Python or Ruby. Curl recently gained supportopens in a new tab but it's experimental and disabled in most distributions. That doesn't matter too much, since a certain "security" company is doing deep packet inspection and blocking anything that isn't Firefox, Chrome, or Safari.

It's not even doing that right. I regularly see the same page blocked in Firefox while not being blocked in Chrome, on the same IP and device. Basically if your browser provides even a tiny bit of privacy, Cloudflare blocks it randomly.

Yep, 90's security is *in* again.

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#459

Post by Alupis »

Uvix wrote: post #356
Alupis wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet, somehow DevOps and Visual Studio (proper) continue living as near zombies. I would never have predicted Microsoft would still be developing a (sort of) Github competitor after acquiring Github. Why not plow all of that focus and energy into making Github the best project management system around? Project management in Github is one of the biggest gripes people have - even on Teams and Enterprise.

GitHub is behind ADO in multiple areas. Boards is the one they're furthest from ADO on; leaving that for last is letting them get the others to a state where ADO users can successfully migrate some of their work to GitHub now, even if the boards need to stay in ADO. That said, Microsoft is never going to be able to completely kill Azure DevOps. If nothing else, they'll have to keep it alive for enterprise customers'…

> TFVC source control history

Surely there's a migration path to git from TFVC? Many large projects successfully moved from CVS and SVN into git.

I'm just surprised that, after 7 years of owning Github, Microsoft hasn't plowed their resources into Github's Projects. It's literally the number one complaint I see regarding project management inside Github - and would likely be an easy way to scale subscriptions for Teams and Enterprise. Heck, today it's still impossible to generate a Burn Down chart without using 3rd party "Apps" or the API.

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#460

Post by ziml77 »

CharlieDigital wrote: post #440
redeeman wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what ui library are most .net applications created in the business world today using? what is microsoft telling people to use?

There's no such thing; it depends on the app that people are building, their use cases, and platforms. Case in point: both Teams and VS Code: both web view wrappers. Some trading shops are still using WPF and some are even using Windows Forms apps still.

I'm amazed people are still using WinForms. When I was going around tables at a job fair in college, 13ish years ago, one of the questions for me from representatives for a large bank was about if I've used WPF. I said I don't use it, and they basically told me I should get with the times.
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