U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#451

Post by tonyhart7 » Tue, Mar 04, 2025, 4:38 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #287

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you. This is what people with privilege don't get. There are concentric circles of giving a fuck: first in the center is yourself, then your family, then your friends, then your community, then your city, then your country, then other countries on the planet. It's impossible to get people to care about the outermost circle when their inner circles are not satisfied, so they won't be happy to see their elected o…

Yet somehow the US is continuing to send tons of expensive military aid to Israel. Which shows this isn't actually about the cost. If this had anything to do with money and caring about domestic spending first, then you'd see aid to Israel cut off as well. Funny how that's not happening.

[flagged]

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#452

Post by anonfordays » Tue, Mar 04, 2025, 4:39 PM UTC

Time to pick up the slack Europe. You spent decades shit talking the US, laughing at how much the US spends on defense, calling the US the "world police", demanding they close military bases, etc.

Now that the US is packing up and going home, the same people are screaming for the US to stay and continue being the exact thing they shit talked the US for.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#453

Post by libertine » Tue, Mar 04, 2025, 4:39 PM UTC

hollerith wrote: post #423

regularjack wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Feel free to provide any resources that support your take, otherwise I'll consider it to be bullshit

Russia is an important exporter of fertilizer, fuel and food. In contrast, most of the third world imports these things. Sanctions imposed by the West do not (and cannot without a naval blockade of Russia, which no one in the West is crazy enough to advocate for) prevent the third world from continuing to import these Russian exports, but they introduce significant friction on these transactions.

They also export stolen Ukrainian grains, let's not forget that detail.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#454

Post by insane_dreamer » Tue, Mar 04, 2025, 4:40 PM UTC

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #379

lifestyleguru wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ethical "who's who" is irrelevant for US, in both cases they have "big beautiful ocean" inbetween.

Well, you know, some of us don't like watching people be killed for no reason, even if there is an ocean between us. It becomes a question for the US: "Are you who you have said you were for the last 80 years? Or are you just power with no morals?" I think that's actually a relevant question. Who are we going to be?

I'm pretty sure the previous author meant that it's irrelevant to Trump ("big beautiful ocean" is his quote), who clearly believes in "power with no morals". Machiavelli would be proud.

It is highly relevant to the American population - but the sad fact is, most Americans don't care and haven't cared for a long time. The US' foreign policy has been built mostly on "power" (hard or soft) with very little in the way of morals or concern for the actual people -- sometimes, a bit here and there, but mostly it's a PR move.

But at least having the _pretence_ of the moral highground forced the US to do some good amidst all of its bad. Now that Trump has cast that aside and "naked power" is the mot du jour, there's no need to do keep doing any good anymore. Thus: help Russia keep killing Ukrainians, and help Israel keep killing Palestinians.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#455

Post by generic92034 » Tue, Mar 04, 2025, 4:41 PM UTC

xg15 wrote: post #392

aemu wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, man. I have emigrated from Russia to EU five years ago and it is heartbreaking to see the developed US and some European countries go through the same bullshit we were going since 2011. Like half the country starts living in wild, completely imaginary world, and you can always tell what is the current agenda of the propaganda machine just by talking to some relatives who fell through that rabbit hole

It's definitely been more than three weeks. As someone who lives in the EU and has the same kind of relatives, what I find frustrating is how little actual engagement with the Russian narratives there is from official sides. There is presented "evidence" for US influence in Ukraine long before the war, like the Victoria Nuland video, yet there seems to be no attempts at debunking those arguments, short of a catch-all…

Countering pushed narratives with facts and arguments is a complete failure. It does not reach the emotional core, which is "us versus them".

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#456

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF » Tue, Mar 04, 2025, 4:41 PM UTC

nprateem wrote: post #237

kstenerud wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is, unfortunately about one thing only: The Nobel Peace Prize. As Trump sees it, Zelenskyy is blocking Trump's peace prize by not agreeing to his (very bad) terms that are designed with one purpose in mind: Quickly freezing the conflict so that he can declare himself peacemaker and get his prize (because Obama got his 9 months into his term). The Russians have been grooming him since the 80s (along with many oth…

This makes no sense. Zelenskyy should just have said "If Russia won't break any treaty, you shouldn't have a problem providing a backstop" Trump just wants to rape Ukraine while he can. It's nothing to do with peace. If he was serious he could offer a backstop and get peace over night.

> It's nothing to do with peace.

OP never said it was about peace but about Trump winning the Nobel Peace Prize.

> Trump just wants to rape Ukraine while he can.

He wants to do this and get the Nobel Peace Prize for it. Does that really seem an implausible goal with this guy?

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#457

Post by ceejayoz » Tue, Mar 04, 2025, 4:41 PM UTC

spiderfarmer wrote: post #311

rayiner wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re saying we already gave them the equivalent of NATO Article 5?

Not equivalent, but the USA is in violation as of today. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum

The USA is not in violation of that. All of points 1-6 have been complied with.

Russia is in clear violation of it, but it never promised US military intervention. All it promises is we'd go to the Security Council about it.

The memorandum didn't really anticipate one of the signatories with a UN veto being the aggressor.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#458

Post by xg15 » Tue, Mar 04, 2025, 4:41 PM UTC

generic92034 wrote: post #455

xg15 wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's definitely been more than three weeks. As someone who lives in the EU and has the same kind of relatives, what I find frustrating is how little actual engagement with the Russian narratives there is from official sides. There is presented "evidence" for US influence in Ukraine long before the war, like the Victoria Nuland video, yet there seems to be no attempts at debunking those arguments, short of a catch-all…

Countering pushed narratives with facts and arguments is a complete failure. It does not reach the emotional core, which is "us versus them".

OK, but how then?

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#459

Post by leovingi » Tue, Mar 04, 2025, 4:42 PM UTC

djhn wrote: post #367

leovingi wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US took Ukraine’s nukes in exchange for safety guarantees. Please read the actual text of the memorandum, so you don't spread any more baseless accusations. It's only 1 page, it'll just take you a minute and the language it is written in is very accessible. https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Ukraine_Memorand... The only point that even touches on any kind of guarantees is essentially a promise to "seek…

The Budapest Memorandum on its own is not the only document that you should consult. We may debate the degree to which 'assurances' differ from 'guarantees', but considering the vagueness of international law I would leave interpretation of primary sources to scholars and statesmen. In the eyes of the people in Europe, the US response to the war has been been lacklustre from the very beginning, only marginally improv…

There is not a single country in the world that has given more money and weapons to Ukraine than the United States.

If the people in Europe find that to be a lackluster response, then it is not surprising that Trump sent Vance over to humiliate them, because they need a wake-up call and they needed it yesterday.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#460

Post by mrtesthah » Tue, Mar 04, 2025, 4:42 PM UTC

rdm_blackhole wrote: post #168

mrtesthah wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Putin has not been able to conquer the whole of Ukraine after 3 years... And with whose weapons and support do you think they managed to do that? Not to mention the US had been helping to train the Ukrainian army since 2014. Anyone who has paid attention to the Ukraine war this far already understands what past, present, and future assurances of military support mean for deterrence. Your comment suggests a level of…

Your comment is exactly the kind of high-ended attitude that is turning off people from having healthy debates with other people who might disagree with them. I am asking a legitimate question. Your contention is that even though the war is at best a stalemate and has revealed that Russia is at best a paper tiger, we should now believe that somehow it has the strength to invade all the Baltic states? I am sorry to sa…

>I am asking a legitimate question.

At best your question was uninformed to the point that it constitutes provocation, at worst it was deliberate disinformation.

I’ll repeat: Russia appears weak because the Ukrainians have received so much military backing from the US and the rest of Europe. It’s a stalemate because others stepped in to stop them.

And furthermore, Russia’s rate of ammo production is higher than Europe’s, their army is larger than Ukraine’s, and their leaders have no limits on how many people they throw into the meat grinder.

Regarding Putin’s attempted restoration of the USSR, even if they’re unable to hold other Balkan countries, that process will result in horrific bloodshed. The US stepping away from defending NATO countries only emboldens Russia to try.

If my attitude puts you off from dialog, then might I politely suggest you educate yourself more on these topics before engaging? You seem more than eager to jump into dialog with others about this topic to push your singular viewpoint, so I’m sure you can direct some of that energy toward broadening your understanding of recent world events.