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The FAA’s Hiring Scandal

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451–460 of 724 posts

Re: The FAA’s Hiring Scandal

#451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spending any tax money on programs designed to only help "DEI" causes is racist. From rich to poor I see as ethical, but there are current programs that are gated on race. This is taking from all to give to a chosen race, all DEI practices should be eliminated from government actions.

> Spending any tax money on programs designed to only help "DEI" causes is racist. DEI has only one cause, and that is avoiding discrimination on non-germane axes, particulalry by subtle, non-obvious means, such as relying on biased funnels.

This does not align with any published goal of a dei program, or the actions of people who are saying "I am doing DEI".

Re: The FAA’s Hiring Scandal

#452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spending any tax money on programs designed to only help "DEI" causes is racist. From rich to poor I see as ethical, but there are current programs that are gated on race. This is taking from all to give to a chosen race, all DEI practices should be eliminated from government actions.

> Spending any tax money on programs designed to only help "DEI" causes is racist. DEI has only one cause, and that is avoiding discrimination on non-germane axes, particulalry by subtle, non-obvious means, such as relying on biased funnels.

wrong, it doesn't avoid discrimnation, it enforces it. companies are doing stuff like 'must include candidates from for open reqs at grade XX or above'

Re: The FAA’s Hiring Scandal

#453
post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. It was also often career suicide to criticize DEI indicatives.

Even if the criticism was intended to be constructive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google's_Ideological_Echo_Cham...

There's zero difference between this memo and what is frequently said by people who just don't like black people (because it's too bad optics to say "I just don't like black people").

Re: The FAA’s Hiring Scandal

#454
post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hilarious that you mentioned the blind auditions in orchestras because now the DEI goons want to get rid of them! They say it hasn't got enough minorities in. Absolute proof that these people care only about race and don't give a damn about fairness. Source https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=8997844...

That article is not “absolute proof” of anything, it’s just a discussion if blind auditions are the be-all end-all. Your comment is very low quality and unnecessarily hostile. Referring to Black people discussing how to get more minorities interested in orchestras as “DEI goons” is one step removed from a slur.

I intend to slur the DEI goons. My opinion of the DEI bureaucracy is such that there is no way to express it politely. 'Contempt' and 'hate' would be such an understatement as to be dishonest.

Re: The FAA’s Hiring Scandal

#455
post #68

Working effectively in ATC without burnout hanging over your head constantly favours a certain amount of neurodivergence. A certain kind of delight in detail, delight in predictable progression of system. The overload needs to invigorate , not fatigue. This doesn’t make ATC professionals better people. It doesn’t make them smarter. It doesn’t make them superhuman. It makes them better at a certain specific kind of wo…

Neither the FAA situation nor the article are about neurodiversity. > We need to stop treating neurodiversity as if it’s a scale from good to bad. It’s just a kind of diversity. In the situation of hiring people for specific jobs, filtering for a perceived "neurodiversity" would have no scientific basis. Fortunately, hiring doesn't work this way. The idea is to hire for people who are qualified for and capable of the…

I think you maybe misunderstood what I was saying. I’m saying that neurodivergence is why some people thrive at certain jobs that others would find exhausting.

Ergo we should test for ability, not some arbitrary representation of race, sex, or other non-task related metric.

Re: The FAA’s Hiring Scandal

#456
post #68

Working effectively in ATC without burnout hanging over your head constantly favours a certain amount of neurodivergence. A certain kind of delight in detail, delight in predictable progression of system. The overload needs to invigorate , not fatigue. This doesn’t make ATC professionals better people. It doesn’t make them smarter. It doesn’t make them superhuman. It makes them better at a certain specific kind of wo…

Not all people are the same. Their differences make them better suited to some jobs than others. Neurodiversity is a useless reframing of something exceptionally simple.

Maybe it’s become politicised or fetishized and we need a new word again. But yeah, that was kinda my point. Hire people that thrive in that environment.

Re: The FAA’s Hiring Scandal

#457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you also have MTG who literally believes “they” control the weather so I’m not sure exactly why you single democrats out here or even the it to any kind of ideology specific consequence.

I don't completely understand it but Republicans manage cognitive dissonance better. Around 1994 I was interested in Trotskyism and Anarchism and wasn't sure if we needed to get the 4th international back in the US or start a 5th international. I believed in this really stupid kind of vanguardism where if you put up the biggest and most radical flag you would get everyone to rally behind it. I reformed because I got…

[Edit] From what you are saying, if someone is looking to be in a tribe, I would agree the American right is a good fit for that.

Re: The FAA’s Hiring Scandal

#458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's a better word?

Autism...

That is really not what I meant. I meant that people have a variety of innate cognitive strengths and weaknesses, similar to physical strengths and weaknesses. Clinical autism and other disorders are when a cognitive trait becomes so extreme that it represents a significant obstacle to normal functioning in the context of your cultural environment.

Re: The FAA’s Hiring Scandal

#459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The quota issue isn't that you have an explicit hiring quota for each race -- which might even be illegal. It's that if, at the end of the year, the number of people you hired had a large racial disparity, that's bad optics and you'll get in trouble, which you know so you fudge things to change it however you can. So you start with 500 slots to fill, 1000 qualified white applicants and 10 qualified black applicants.…

There seems to be implication of confusion of what a qualified applicant means in your example above. If there's a test used as the basis of consideration, and some process has decided that any score over X makes the candidate qualified, but then you are later going to claim that actually, given that there were candidates with a score of X+Y, a score of just X does not really constitute "qualified" and the higher sco…

Suppose you have a test which is a decent proxy for how well someone will do a job. The median person currently doing the job scored 85 and their range is 70-99. If you put someone who scored a 4 in the job, people will die almost immediately. If you put someone who scored a 50 there, people will be at a higher risk of death and you'd be better off passing on that candidate and waiting for a better one. From this we might come up with a threshold of 70 for the minimum score and call this "qualified". Then if you have to fill 5 slots and you got candidates scoring 50, 75 and 95, you should hire the latter two and keep the other slots unfilled until you get better candidates.

But if you have to fill 5 slots and you have 10 candidates who all scored above 70, you now have to choose between them somehow. And the candidates who scored 95 are legitimately expected to perform the job better than the ones who scored 75, even though the ones who scored 75 would have been better than an unfilled position.

Re: The FAA’s Hiring Scandal

#460
post #265

There's a simple fix to removing discrimination in hiring practices that no one seems to notice. Remove all demographic questions from the application. Hide the name and gender and attach a applicant ID. It's as easy as that. Every job should be looking for the most qualified individual regardless of race, nationality, religion, and sex. Demographics in the application are a recipe for disaster on both sides of the i…

My company's DEI program effectively does this. The main tenets are: - Cast a wide recruiting net to attract a diverse candidate pool - Don't collect demographic data on applications - Separate the recruiting / interview process from the hiring committee - The hiring committee only sees qualifications and interview results; all identifying info is stripped - Our guardrail is the assumption that our hiring process is…

> Our guardrail is the assumption that our hiring process is blind, and our workforce demographics should closely mirror general population demographics as a result

> If our demographics start to diverge, we re-eval our process to look for bias or see if we can do better at recruiting

These are not good assumptions. 80% of pediatricians are women. Why would a hospital expect to hire 50% male pediatricians when only 20% of pediatricians are men? If you saw a hospital that had 50% male pediatricians, that means they're hiring male pediatricians at 4x the rate of women. That's pretty strong evidence that female candidates aren't being given equal employment opportunity.

A past company of mine had practices similar to yours. The way it achieved gender diversity representative of the general population in engineering roles (which were only ~20% women in the field) was by advancing women to interviews at rates much higher than men. The hiring committee didn't see candidates' demographics so this went unknown for quite some time. But the recruiters choosing which candidates to advance to interviewing did, and they used tools like census data on the gender distribution of names to ensure the desired distribution of candidates were interviewed. When the recruiters onboarding docs detailing all those demographic tools were leaked it caused a big kerfuffle, and demands for more transparency in the hiring pipeline.

I'd be very interested in what the demographic distribution of your applicants are, and how they compare against the candidates advanced to interviews.

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