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CDC data are disappearing

theatlantic.com

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Re: CDC data are disappearing

#451

Post by [deleted] »

_heimdall wrote: post #434
hackyhacky wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Trumpian opposition to fact checkers is not based on some principled disagreement of substance. Trump, and by extension Republicans, oppose fact checking because the facts are in contradiction to their goals. Trump himself exists in some post-modern environment where "facts" aren't real and all that matters is spin. He wants what he says to go unquestioned. That's why instead of having a debate about facts, suppo…

I don't believe that is a one party issue. Life is messy and politicians attempt to smooth that over with grandiose, but hollow, visions for the future and data points taken out of context to paint a picture. It's a fundamental problem of scale, you either become so bogged down in details and nuance that you get nothing done or you lose so much context that your statements are false without a massive list of caveats.

[deleted]

Re: CDC data are disappearing

#452

Post by valunord »

SeptiumMMX wrote: post #290
breadwinner wrote: post #240

Data is the ultimate Fact Check. This is a President that's adamantly opposed to fact checking [1] and has even coerced Facebook to drop fact checking. Of course they don't want data on government sites that disprove their "alternate facts". [1] https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4920827-60-minutes-tru...

Well, fact-checking works if it's done impartially. So, if you want to fairly fact-check a political debate, each side should have their own team of researchers/fact-checkers being equally able to object to an argument made by the opposing party. Due process, sort of, kind of. But I don't think I've ever seen that done actually. Usually, fact checkers are akin to Reddit moderators. Technically independent, but with o…

Let's first work on eliminating political parties altogether, then let's work on eliminating bias.

Re: CDC data are disappearing

#453

Post by hackyhacky »

_heimdall wrote: post #442
hackyhacky wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe they are. The solution to this is to provide evidence in favor of your argument. That's how we used to resolve conflicting opinions: debates supported by evidence. Now, instead, we're simply getting rid of any attempt to decide what is factual, and instead let demagogues decide for us what is fact and what is not, without any evidence at all. Since evidence is now superfluous, why waste government money by prov…

I think the problem there is the powers granted to government rather than how today's people decide to wield it. Facts are never really decided, things can always change if we learn something new or just consider what we know from a different angle. The problem here is that anyone in charge can decide what they believe is fact and make very real, very impactful changes that they force on everyone else.

> The problem here is that anyone in charge can decide what they believe is fact and make very real, very impactful changes that they force on everyone else.

Sure, such is the nature of power. Thus has it always been.

What's novel is not that people in charge can broadcast their favored view of facts, but that anyone can broadcast their favored view of facts, which has to led to the current demoralization crisis: in the presence of conflicting authorities, no one believes any facts anymore.

Of course, some of the "facts" being broadcast are not, in fact, facts. The problem is that the flood of misinformation is so large, the force of echo chambers so strong, and the cynicism of consumers so great, that it is infeasible to produce persuasive evidence sufficient to make the truth more appealing than lies.

Re: CDC data are disappearing

#454

Post by po »

My prediction is that any future data that is published will likely show up in the x.com app. I believe they are trying to privatize all government functions and Musk wants X to be the official government super-app similar to China's system.

Re: CDC data are disappearing

#455

Post by [deleted] »

ambicapter wrote: post #310
tialaramex wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's on a country that has been extremely stable before The US is a known bad design, nation builders working for the United States stopped trying to use this design for new countries in the 20th century, it doesn't work. It's inherently unstable and you previously got very lucky, although you have had a civil war and numerous close calls. It's like oh, why don't we make coal-powered cars. Well because it's a known…

[Citation Needed] I'd love to read about the new designs.

[deleted]

Re: CDC data are disappearing

#457

Post by smallerize »

ambicapter wrote: post #310
tialaramex wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's on a country that has been extremely stable before The US is a known bad design, nation builders working for the United States stopped trying to use this design for new countries in the 20th century, it doesn't work. It's inherently unstable and you previously got very lucky, although you have had a civil war and numerous close calls. It's like oh, why don't we make coal-powered cars. Well because it's a known…

[Citation Needed] I'd love to read about the new designs.

Literally every other existing democracy is newer. Dig in.

Re: CDC data are disappearing

#458

Post by hackyhacky »

_heimdall wrote: post #434
hackyhacky wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Trumpian opposition to fact checkers is not based on some principled disagreement of substance. Trump, and by extension Republicans, oppose fact checking because the facts are in contradiction to their goals. Trump himself exists in some post-modern environment where "facts" aren't real and all that matters is spin. He wants what he says to go unquestioned. That's why instead of having a debate about facts, suppo…

I don't believe that is a one party issue. Life is messy and politicians attempt to smooth that over with grandiose, but hollow, visions for the future and data points taken out of context to paint a picture. It's a fundamental problem of scale, you either become so bogged down in details and nuance that you get nothing done or you lose so much context that your statements are false without a massive list of caveats.

> Life is messy and politicians attempt to smooth that over with grandiose, but hollow, visions for the future and data points taken out of context to paint a picture.

Your point is: politicians lie. Of course they do. They always have.

What's new in our era is not the lying, but the utter contempt for facts. A study in contrasts:

* A "traditional politician" will lie. If they are caught, with plain evidence that contradicts their claim, they will evade, or reframe, or apologize, or blame someone else.

* A "Trumpian politician" will lie. If he is caught, with plan evidence that contradicts their claim, he will flatly oppose the facts. He'll invoke a vague conspiracy of evildoers who concocted the alleged facts. People believe him because he is charismatic and he talks like a regular person. He gaslights: believe me, he says, not your common sense and lyin' eyes.

So we're in a conundrum where many people have lost their ability to believe in facts, and instead believe a con-man. The problem is not just dishonesty, it is demoralization (in the psychological warfare sense of the word[1]).

EDIT: I read somewhere that Trump's superpower is lack of shame. A weaker politician concedes to facts out of respect for his audience: to deny a plain truth would be embarrassing.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demoralization_(warfare)

Re: CDC data are disappearing

#459

Post by smallerize »

po wrote: post #454

My prediction is that any future data that is published will likely show up in the x.com app. I believe they are trying to privatize all government functions and Musk wants X to be the official government super-app similar to China's system.

NTSB has already said this. https://xcancel.com/NTSB_Newsroom/status/1885734974298435943

Re: CDC data are disappearing

#460

Post by naruhodo »

hypeatei wrote: post #21
CalRobert wrote: post #5

This is part of a broader rolling catastrophe. Musk is evidently seizing control of the Office of Personnel Management https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2025-01-31/exclus... Nasa took down their applied sciences page and is evidently scrubbing the data https://www.reddit.com/r/gis/comments/1icqchv/why_is_the_nas... ( https://appliedsciences.nasa.gov/ ) Lots of other data sets are disappearing too: https://ma…

I would just like to point out that Musk is the richest man in the world and is now directing critical areas of the U.S. government. Surely he doesn't have ulterior motives and is looking out for the average person?

The tech oligarchs want to dismantle democracy, receive a gift of 0.5% of Federal land from Trump and establish their own democracy-free fiefdoms. [1]

The social support system in the US is being dismantled and when people can no longer afford to eat, the ensuing riots will provide the necessary trigger to declare martial law and suspend democracy completely.

[1] DARK GOTHIC MAGA: How Tech Billionaires Plan to Destroy America https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RpPTRcz1no

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