Earlier quoted context omitted.
DCA is great to fly in and out of (I live in DC proper), as it's close, isn't hard to get to, and has a Metro (our subway) station right in front of the terminal, and the airport is fairly easy to navigate once you're in. Dulles now has a Metro station, but it's still far away from the terminal and it's hard to navigate, with gates very far away from the terminal; other than the Saarinen architecture, everything else…
Thank's for the detailed explanation! I have a warm spot in my heart for Dulles, because it's my first memory of American (we flew into Dulles from Bangladesh in 1989). It's really convenient if you live in Great Falls or Reston. And I loved what was then the semi-rural Virginia around the airport. But agreed, it's a huge pain in the butt to navigate.
Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport
451–460 of 738 posts
Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport
#452Earlier quoted context omitted.
What is Congress' favorite airport?
Presumably Dulles because international and probably long-haul generally flights. (Though I imagine more fly in and out of Reagan/National on a regular basis.)
Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport
#453Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is wild to listen to. A) this is a busy atc channel and it's amazing how much complexity is coordinated over noisy radio. B) within minutes of the accident happening (at 11:48) the ATC controller is calmly asking helicopters in the air if they can assist in search rescue operations asking, if they have search lights and direction them. This is whilst diverting and grounding flights.
> over noisy radio I've been told the noise on the recordings is always a lot worse than in practice due to the location of the recording antenna not being ideal. I have no idea if this is correct or not. Maybe someone can enlighten this.
So, it really is that bad. Especially when flying low, on the edge of the range of the radios, etc. VHF radio is ancient technology. It's not great even under ideal conditions.
If your phone calls sounded that bad, you'd want to upgrade your phone or switch operator. Really not acceptable for consumer grade communication. Not even close. This is how phones sounded half a century ago. "can you hear me .... are you there ..... can you talk louder ....". My grand mother never really unlearned 1930s phone etiquette. Phone calls with her were short (cause expensive) and she'd be shouting at you because that's what you did. Be brief, loud, hang up as soon as possible. That's what pilots still do. My grand mother was born during WW I (not II) and she's been dead for nearly 20 years.
The aviation world is very conservative with new/better/any technology. They stick with "what works". Even if arguably it barely works. Like pretty much the vast majority of radio exchanges between pilots and controllers over VHF radio. Learning how to talk on the radio is the second hardest part of getting an instrument rating. The only thing that's harder is flying a plane with zero visibility ... while suffering extreme information overload because of the constant radio chatter and dealing with confused/stressed/pissed off controllers who have to juggle you and 20 other planes.
A lot of radio exchanges are routine exchanges that involve very basic information: call signs, transponder codes, codes for approaches/departures, courses, altimeter settings, altitudes, weather information, etc. And then a lot of double checking the other side heard correctly, repeating back what you heard, etc. Radio communication compensates for the lack of a more robust/sane way of exchanging information. There literally is no way for a controller to send you information in written format. Other than using their private phones. So, it all gets spelled out over low quality VHF radio.
There's no good technical reason to not do something vastly more reliable, less intrusive, and less error prone. Some might say safer. Many planes have star link connections these days. The passengers get better connectivity than the pilot. They could be having video calls with the controller with crystal clear audio from anywhere on this planet instead of yelling to them over VHF only when they are in range. They could be sending each other emails, documents, digital maps, and lots of other machine readable information, etc. Not a thing.
It's more a challenge of agreeing on what such a vastly better thing would be and then updating each and every plane and tower, airport, controller world wide with equipment that supports that. Add design by committee to the mix and the "state of the art" is something that would make any competent engineer born after 1970 blush.
Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport
#454Maybe not related at all, but I can't help but wonder if this is affected by the funding turmoil. Would a less distracted ATC controller prevent this?
Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport
#455In any event, unless the weather was IMC, where neither aircraft can see because of weather/cloud, which I'm deducing is not the case if they were allowed to maintain visual separation, the ultimate responsibility for maintaining separation is with the pilot(s) .. But as I posted, we should not have this happen anywhere in the United States in 2025 & much less the nation's capital. Hopefully DOT and FAA get to work,…
but I have a feeling that will be the end of
DCA's usefull life as a major passenger airport.
Wait, what?I was with you until this last sentence. You think DCA will be spun down because an accident occurred there?
This seems wild - what am I missing here?
Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport
#456Earlier quoted context omitted.
The intelligent response would be "probably not, but we'll see what the investigation says". But imagine if the tables were turned politically. Fox News would be going off 24/7 about "DEI" or some such for weeks on end. That strategy seems to be successful, so I would expect the other side to start employing it more as well. Having a bunch of harried, overworked people stressed about their jobs and the future certain…
Yea I had the same thought, its a ticky-tacky thing to say right now, but I wouldn't expect any more from the other side either.
Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport
#457Earlier quoted context omitted.
Weather was fine tonight. Also DCA is the most popular airport and congress would stage their own revolution if they had to go further.
Yeah, it's at least partially Congress's fault DCA is as busy as it is. Every few years, they push to allow more flights, and longer flights, into the airport, because they all want to convenience. Which is silly, it's not like IAD is all that far away. It's a straight shot down the Access Road to 66 and then into the city. Of course, with the RTO mandate, the portion from 66 inward is going to get busy again, but he…
Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport
#458The real question, I feel, is whether the current U.S. government as it exists in 2025 is still capable of continuing to improve things, and whether it's still putting all the lessons of the past into practice - or whether we were just coasting on a combination of luck and the vestigial safety left to us by the diligence of the past.
Considering that the head of the FAA and TSA were forced to resign, and a hiring freeze on air traffic controllers is suddenly in effect, I don't think the current government wants to improve flight safety. https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/air-transport/2025-0...
For context, the heads of the FAA and TSA are supposed to serve 5-year terms. The FAA Admin (Michael Whitaker) who was forced out started serving in Oct 2023. The TSA Admin (David Pekoske) was first appointed in 2017, and then nominated for another 5-year term in 2022.
As far as I'm aware, this is the first time those positions have ever been told to resign by a new administration.
Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport
#459Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport
#460To put this in perspective, this is the first fatal crash of a US commercial airliner in 16 years (Colgan Air Flight 3407 on February 12, 2009) and the first fatal commercial airliner crash in the United States in 12 years (since Asiana Airlines Flight 214 on July 6, 2013). We like to throw shade at Boeing, the FAA etc, but this is still an incredible accomplishment, especially given the explosive growth of traffic o…
There is simply no reason to use the statistical safety of air travel to excuse incidents. We can appreciate the incredible feats of engineering and logistics that make air travel so safe without letting the bar dip down or throwing up our hands and saying "well it can't be perfect, don't throw shade" when a specific organization has a specific incident. Edit: To be clear, I'm referring to what you said, not to the c…