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Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

reuters.com

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Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#451

Post by Tainnor »

whatshisface wrote: post #47
breppp wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably the most efficient way of creating multiple generations of anger and hate is letting a radical terrorist movement control 2 million people, which can completely mold the education curriculum and free to draft anyone to their quasi-army So whatever it has done, it cannot possibly be worse than pre-war

What could a radical terrorist organization possibily tell Gazans about what happened to their parents that sounds worse than the truth?

Something like this maybe? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomorrow's_Pioneers

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#452

Post by throw310822 »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #379
boringg wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While this is a good development. Everything in this part of the world is on a rinse snd repeat cycle ever since the Assyrians and the Babylonians - it hasn't changed much except maybe its actually a little more humane then it was in the past (which says something). Sorry for the cynical take but this just does a temporary stop.

I like how even in this thread, you have many people - almost certainly very few of whom have no real stake in the fight - bitterly arguing about who is right and wrong (turning it into a fight about US politics as a bonus). Human nature and tribalism really is a terrible thing sometimes. I agree with you, although I certainly hope you and I are wrong. It would be nice to see people let go of past injustices on both…

> It would be nice to see people let go of past injustices on both sides long enough to have a lasting peace

It's not past injustices. Israel is occupying, annexing and settling more land now. It's not some tit-for-tat between neighbours over past wrongs, it's one neighbour that is chasing away the other to take their house.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#453

Post by mjfl »

tptacek wrote: post #350

Hamas was offered a ceasefire under exactly the same terms in May, and refused it. Since then: * Ismail Haniyeh, the leader of the Hamas political wing, was killed in Tehran * Yahyah Sinwar, the leader of the Al-Qassam Brigades, was killed in Gaza * Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of Lebanese Hezbollah, was killed in Beirut * Hashem Safieddine, Nasrallah's successor, was killed a week later * Large swathes of Hezbollah'…

Hamas accepted the deal back in May, but then Netanyahu refused to sign the deal, and revised it into a form that was no longer acceptable.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#454

Post by andrewflnr »

userbinator wrote: post #222

Good. Next, Ukraine and Russia.

Unlikely, unless one of the combatants has a major economic collapse. Which, I mean, pulling support from Ukraine would do it, but personally I don't consider that an acceptable outcome.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#455

Post by jraby3 »

hmcq6 wrote: post #444
eastbound wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

"Fair" is a funny word to choose. One side is fighting with salvaged weapons and the other has the backing of the strongest militaries in the world. One side isn't allowed air support. One side isn't allowed food, water or even concrete. One side isn't even allowed to flee. So "fair" is not the word I would use. "Moral" isn't one I would use either given that Israel does not have the right as a belligerent occupier t…

The side that isn't allowed concrete built the biggest tunnel system in the world. Instead of building schools, libraries, hospitals they chose to build a terror tunnel system larger than the British Underground.

There is plenty of food if you actually look at the trucks of food waiting to be distributed. The side that is fighting without food is doing that because their food is being stolen and used to recruit more terrorists.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#456

Post by verdverm »

breppp wrote: post #40
verdverm wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel has likely also created multiple generations of anger and hate against themselves. They may have reduced the likelihood of another Oct 7 in the near term, but 50 years is not something I would count on

Probably the most efficient way of creating multiple generations of anger and hate is letting a radical terrorist movement control 2 million people, which can completely mold the education curriculum and free to draft anyone to their quasi-army So whatever it has done, it cannot possibly be worse than pre-war

I'm not trying to say if it is better or worse. Perhaps a better phrasing is "Israel has solidified another 2 generations of hatred by how they prosecuted the war." Leveling a country, killing and maiming as many as they did, the indiscriminate nature and war crimes, these things worked against their stated goals in the long-term

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#457

Post by tmnvix »

dismalaf wrote: post #331
gravisultra wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not true at all. The current conflict isn't some thousand year old feud. It was very much caused by the deliberate provocation and importation of European settlers via Zionism. It's easy to wave our hands and say "it's so complicated!" or "they've been doing this for thousands of years!" but it's not complicated, much like apartheid South Africa, Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan were not complicated. Colonialis…

This is a lot of buzzwords but no content. The background behind the current conflict goes something like this: Muslims, Christians and Jews all lived in Palestine during the Ottoman era. Jews discovered Europe was pretty hostile, Zionism was born. Many move to Palestine, buy land and settle down. The Ottomans lose WWI, lose Palestine to the British. The British Empire started fracturing, they realised they couldn't…

> The Jews abide by the plan, declare Israel when the British mandate ends.

There is a lot to say about this part, but just one point: the plan included the establishment of a Palestinian state which Israel has blocked since its inception. So no, they did not abide by the plan. The plan has never been implemented.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#458

Post by Jiro »

hmcq6 wrote: post #444
eastbound wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

"Fair" is a funny word to choose. One side is fighting with salvaged weapons and the other has the backing of the strongest militaries in the world. One side isn't allowed air support. One side isn't allowed food, water or even concrete. One side isn't even allowed to flee. So "fair" is not the word I would use. "Moral" isn't one I would use either given that Israel does not have the right as a belligerent occupier t…

The people deliberately hiding behind the babies were armed.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#459

Post by jraby3 »

hedora wrote: post #443
bushbaba wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never mind that Hamas will STILL have hostages after the deal is done. That Gaza is ruled by an organization stating they’ll continue doing an Oct 7th again and again. It takes both sides to agree to a better future.

How are you proposing the deal could be made more fair? Keep in mind: Israel killed 100x more civilians than Palestine during this conflict, and more damage was done to Gaza than any European city during wwii. 90% of the population is displaced. 10% are casualties. Israel intentionally blew up all the civil infrastructure (hospitals, doctors, engineers) first. There are > 17,000 children that have no adults to care f…

It could be made more fair if all the hostages were released. Why would international society accept hundreds of peaceful civilians being tortured, raped and murdered for over a year as acceptable?

Israel actually built a lot of the civilian infrastructure, including the largest hospital in Gaza. It's pretty clear those places are being used as terrorist hideouts and to launch rocket attacks. Why is it acceptable to shoot rockets purely targeting civilians while breaking a cease fire agreement?

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#460

Post by Jiro »

conception wrote: post #254
bko wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question, but why haven't there been "I will sacrifice everything to wipe [country]" generations sowing havoc on neighbors after Dresden, Nagasaki, Nanjing or others?

I think the west learned after WW1 that it’s better to rebuild your enemies in corporation than punish them when you win and let grudges fester.

... after they unconditionally surrender.
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