This author is deeply deeply misunderstanding other humans. They are applying a "it worked for me, therefore it works for all" mentality. And worse yet, coming to the wrong conclusions. You do not need to be an extrovert at work to get ahead. Full stop. Does it help in some ways? Sure, but you can be equally successful as an introvert as long as you are able to communicate clearly when needs demand it. Plenty of exce…
The trap of "I am not an extrovert"
451–460 of 473 posts
Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"
#452I can't take the whole thing seriously because it's such an odd case to make - what is the end goal? To address anyone who may experience social anxiety or just a reluctance to join in a completely new social situation, and say, "No, whatever you might have going on in your head is completely untrue, dude, trust me"? I mean, there's not a morsel of objectivity or grace anywhere in the whole thing, just an admonishment for people who aren't wired the same way the author is.
The feeling I get here is essentially that the author wanted to feel like they're in the right about how they see a social event should go, decided to write it up in a way that sounds very serious and selfless and in the best interest of all the introverts out there, and share it so that they... maybe get a good debate going? I don't know.
When it comes to individual behavior in group settings, it's hard to really say where a particular person may be coming from in terms of how they perceive psychological safety and comfort, or if they are misjudging their decision to participate for a reason that has nothing to do with the situation itself. People may participate in different ways, people may drop off or leave for different reasons. Which is fine, it's part of the social contract we have with each other. It might hurt sometimes, but it's a part of the thing.
And there are already quite a few workarounds for this sort of thing too? The whole notion of plus-ones in social affairs is partly so that you're not left feeling isolated once the event is rolling. Large organizations have onboarding buddies and pair work sessions to get folks up to speed. Some clubs have chaperones or one-on-one buddies for new joiners. These are all patterns that exist. There's no evidence of any of this in the anecdote or the rest of the write-up. And again, this is subjective, but to me it all reads like it's dripping with condescension.
If "introversion is not an excuse, you need to work on it for your own good, trust me because I know better and have read a few books" is the takeaway here, then yeesh, maybe the author hasn't given the matter of introversion or extraversion any real thought beyond "phew, I'm so glad I know better because I'm doing so good" and "I wish those introverts tried harder instead of sitting around thinking they know better".
Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"
#453Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you take all men and all women, that's probably true. By the same token, men are also more likely to die on the front lines of a war, but that doesn't mean that you're safer there as a woman, it means there are far fewer of them there! In order to come to your conclusion ("you are safer if you are a woman"), you'd have to control for where the crime takes place, who committed it, and why. For just one example: gan…
> By the same token, men are also more likely to die on the front lines of a war, but that doesn't mean that you're safer there as a woman, it means there are far fewer of them there! And this is why? Women don't get drafted. Proving my point. The rest of your post is victim blaming.
Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"
#454> No matter what role you play, you will always have to communicate and collaborate with others. If this is something you disagree with, you should go back to the drawing board and think deeply. Sounds good, that's what I wanted. > you should check out Thinking Fast and Slow. I checked it out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking,_Fast_and_Slow#Replic... It was discovered many prominent research findings were diffi…
Seems like you just did the most cursory of searches, found a negative pull quote about some studies in one chapter, and called it day. Much like reading the negative google reviews for a bar you were invited to instead of actually accepting the invitation and going, I'm not sure this qualifies as "checking it out"
I may very well be wrong, some books of the pop-psych self-help kind turn out to be pretty good. I enjoyed How to win friends and influence people. Unfortunately there are approximately nine billion similar books. This is why cursory and aggressively dismissive investigation is the correct approach.
Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"
#455Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not sure I would say introversion is a negative self label. > people that say "they are always late haha" No, that just means "I don't respect other people or their time, haha". > people that say "they aren't good at math" There are people who say it as an excuse to not try. But you know, some people are bad at math, so maybe let's have someone else on the team do that part? But what's the difference to "I don't want…
It is funny that you reply to a diatribe about not attaching yourself to labels to come across as very defensive of the label you've given yourself. My whole point is we're not anything, you're not an introvert is my point.
Your comment reads as "to those who call themselves X: No, you're not at all a bad person!". Like, they never said they were.
I don't label myself. It's a description. I could tell you I'm white, and your reply could equally well be "no, you're not a bad person. You should stop labelling yourself as white". I… didn't say I was a bad person. Nor did I say my identity revolves around whiteness. I don't join white people clubs. I don't let my skin color decide where I live, work, or who my friends are.
You're the one obsessed with labels.
> you're not an introvert is my point.
Clearly you know me better than I know myself. /s
If your point is that everyone's equal on introversion/extroversion, that (just like the cure for depression is "just snap out of it") it's all a matter of "just try", then not sure what golden plate inside a hat you read that on, but good luck with that.
And to be clear: Saying I'm not an introvert is not a compliment. Nor is it an insult. It's simply factually incorrect. I'm also not Japanese.
Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"
#456Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Extroverts don't understand this concept of limited capacity for socialization. I think there's gotta be a middle ground where someverts are more tolerant of socializing for long periods of time. It still becomes draining, but they don't have some terrible allergic reaction. More like just mild sneezing!
It’s a spectrum - most of us are ambiverts.
My new favourite word!
Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"
#457Earlier quoted context omitted.
> the goal is for them to be independent variables in the statistical sense. No, it isn't. The goal is for them to have high explanatory power. They aren't independent variables, and the fact that they aren't is a frequent criticism of them. But it's not relevant to whether they are useful descriptors or predictors. Compare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_personality_traits#Li... : > In many studies, the five…
that description does not disagree with me. It was developed by people fully aware of what orthogonality is, and understanding of why orthogonality is desirable. The fact that it is not perfect is indicative of the complexity of psychology and the bluntness of our tools. There is no system that is more orthogonal that explains near as much (I qualify it that way because dead vs alive is simple and pure but of little…
Unless you think that "these five variables appear to be independent when measured" conflicts with "these five variables are not independent".
It doesn't seem like that tricky of a question, but maybe I'm missing something.
Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"
#458Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"
#459I am an introvert not because I don’t like socializing with people, but rather because I can’t shake the impression that they don’t like socializing with me (and I have been proven right in this notion). In order to become more likable I’ve had to adopt an extremely perceptive and self critical mental framework to analyze every thing I could be doing wrong to annoy or offend people. It has worked, and people seem to…
Also I can totally relate to the hyper fixation on "what does this person think if me right now with everything I say?" I wish I had a simple super effective answer but I think it just takes small improvements over time. In general, if you're willing to show a reasonable level of mutual interest in the other person, they will reciprocate and with practice this can be trusted such that the anxiety reduces. Also accept that some people will just not be interested or necessarily like you and that's ok, but hard at first for sure, especially if you've faced social rejection earlier in life.
Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"
#460Earlier quoted context omitted.
> By the same token, men are also more likely to die on the front lines of a war, but that doesn't mean that you're safer there as a woman, it means there are far fewer of them there! And this is why? Women don't get drafted. Proving my point. The rest of your post is victim blaming.
> The rest of your post is victim blaming. Nonsense. It's simply stating the reality that HN users (the "you" in your comment) are not average males and average females—in fact, no one is. For the vast majority of audiences, gang violence should be excluded from tallies when trying to judge whether men or women are safer, and you're not doing so, which leads to an inaccurate judgement of relative risks for the people…