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Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

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Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#451

Post by danlugo92 »

fifticon wrote: post #282

another point is: since WW2, denmark has one of the highest, if not THE highest, percentages of area under agriculture. During WW2, we temporarily allowed agriculture on very poor farmland. It was meant to cease after the war, but our strong farmer lobbyists kept extending the permission.. So it is not about giving up 'good farm land', it is about stopping abusive agriculture which is only possible with extreme chemi…

Nah, these policies are aimed into increasing food imports (therefore decreasing food security btw), because it's easier for politicians to steal money with off-shore businesses.

And the farmers alao get shafted in the process, farmers are always totalitarian's first target. Venezuela, Rwanda, Zimbawe, Cuba.

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#452

Post by danlugo92 »

flanked-evergl wrote: post #339
batushka5 wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And in case they choose "no", that carbon tax for farm animals help to think second time.

Yeah, it's much better for farming to be moved to countries with less labour and environmental regulations.

They are further off shoring the economy now using the excuse of climate change.

As if farmers in Cambodia aren't draining his tractor's oil into the river passing through their land.

Bonus points the politicians can then import the food using a shell company in Singapore and steal tax dollars.

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#453

Post by danlugo92 »

flanked-evergl wrote: post #337

The west is engaging in managed decline and moving production to places with less regulation and much worse environmental and social impacts. Why? What sense does this make? You would rather have some Muslim slave in China make your stuff while poisoning the ocean than make it in Denmark?

Corruption and stealing is easier with off-shore business.

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#454

Post by danlugo92 »

Sabinus wrote: post #10

Good luck. In the less cohesive Western countries efforts like this are met with both protest by farmers who view their providing calories as almost a sacred task, and by foreign agitprop that proposes any effort that makes it harder to farm is an attempt at subjugating the people.

Making it harder to grow your own food /is/ subjugating.

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#455

Post by danlugo92 »

Sabinus wrote: post #205
123yawaworht456 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

shitlibs' contempt for farmers of all people is a real mask off moment

Farmers can get extremely attached to one piece of land and one farming method and any attempts to shift the incentives in the system and make some types of farming or locations move on is portrayed as a systemic attack on farming and the end of the world. Everyone appreciates the farmers, some farmers just don't seem to appreciate the harms certain types of farming put on everyone else and the ecosystem, and they'll…

> powerful

Wheres the billionare farmers in the cover of Forbers?

Where?

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#456

Post by K0balt »

Without my glasses and morning caffeine dose, I read that Denmark was going to plant 18 trees and convert 10percent of its farmland into forest. Not really knowing anything about Denmark, I briefly imagined that Denmark was either much, much smaller than I had originally supposed , or that it had very, very little agricultural density.

Sometimes these idiotic musings and the little chuckle I get internally are the brighter part of my morning. Even in fading vision there are things to appreciate.

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#457

Post by eek04_ »

danlitt wrote: post #329
manvillej wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Governments pay to keep food at the cheapest point possible to ensure stability. a fed population doesn't kill their governments. Agriculture is not a regular industry; its a national security issue Farming is not a profitable endeavor. There would be a lot less financial advisors in the world otherwise. A carbon tax will either drive up prices or reduce suppliers, increasing prices. Reducing farmland will require mo…

I am not sure how this responds to the comment you are actually responding to. You say, > Governments pay to keep food cheap > A carbon tax will either drive up prices or [drive up prices] So, this is just number rearranging. The public pays either way. Ok. The comment you replied to says > Currently the public subsidizes the agriculture industry by paying for the consequences of the industry's carbon emissions. So t…

> So, this is just number rearranging. The public pays either way.

"The public" isn't one person. Denmark has progressive taxes; getting rid of subsidies so prices of food increases changes who among the public pays.

> Or do you just want to ignore this externality until we pay it all at once?

> So, this is just number rearranging. The public pays either way.

"The public" isn't one person. Denmark has progressive taxes; getting rid of subsidies so prices of food increases changes who among the public pays.

> Or do you just want to ignore this externality until we pay it all at once?

I'm in favor of the carbon tax. I also think that it has complicated side effects and we should try to understand those effects, and see if we need to change something else to compensate for them.

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#458

Post by darkwater »

panick21_ wrote: post #315
darkwater wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Farmers and people supporting farmers are still a small minority and while they can probably swing some election in some country if they were to massively support only one party or coalition, the money comes for the strategic importance. It would be naive to think it's just "for the votes".

It was a long time ago that I have looked into this. My understanding from the political science is that countries where farmers votes aren't as important, also have far less subsidizes. Groups that already have subsidizes are better at defending them. Even if in absolute terms their numbers aren't as big.

They are totally going to defend themselves, mainly through boycotts, barricades and varying degrees of riots. That can totally cause a vote issue, but it's because the rest of the population is pissed off by the road blocks etc

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#459

Post by 15155 »

BurningFrog wrote: post #384
manvillej wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am very conflicted on a carbon tax for the agriculture industry. It is going to sidle a cost to an industry of razor thin margins. The transition from regenerative agriculture is expensive & rising food costs has a destabilizing effect. There need to be changes, but I am not convinced that this will have the desired effects. Its quite possible this leads to a net conversion of farmland to residential or commercial…

Carbon taxes are by far the most effective way to get down CO₂ emissions. But I'm doubtful that implementing them only for one industry in one small country is very helpful.

Meanwhile, China simply doesn't care.

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#460

Post by perrygeo »

inglor_cz wrote: post #4

In many parts of Europe, forested areas have actually grown since the 20th and especially the 19th century. People no longer use wood as a fuel, or in very small amounts compared to the past, and some former pastures have been re-colonized by trees. Czechia is currently 34 per cent forest. Used to be less than 20 per cent in the Theresian cadastre (mid 18-th century).

We have to be careful here. While that's good news locally, the news is less promising globally. Deforestation is still rampant in the global south - specifically to make agricultural products for the global north. So Europe and America are still net-deforesters if you take into account their imported products.
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