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Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

cnn.com

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Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#451

Post by sedan_baklazhan »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #134
PKop wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So sacrifice more Ukrainian men for the meat grinder? What has that accomplished so far?

> sacrifice more Ukrainian men for the meat grinder? To the extent there's a meat grinder, it's of Russians [1]. > What has that accomplished so far? Russia's disqualifying itself as a conventional military threat for at least a generation. It's not yet there yet, largely because Ukraine has been unable to target its war marchine. But the startling inefficacy of its army and technology has been made clear. Moreover,…

1. Ukrainian borders are closed from day one. 2. Russian borders are open from day one. 3. Ukrainian conscription is keeping on going from day one, taking radical form in recent year or so (men being violently dragged from streets) 4. Russia has had a single conscription which lasted 3 months. 5. Ukrainians are risking their lives fleeing the country via rivers and mountains. Many escapers were found shot. 6. You can take a plane and emigrate from Russia. No obstacles.

Yet you insist there are much more casualties in Russia. Where’s the logic here?

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#452

Post by sedan_baklazhan »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #169
PKop wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>we could have fight for us C'mon. Their funding is entirely US dependent. What business is that of ours? We are enabling it. How could you possibly ask the question "what business is that of ours"? Explain yourself, that question is absurd.

> What business is that of ours? We are enabling it. They clearly want to fight! This is like arguing giving someone chemo is enabling their cancer.

Exactly because Ukrainians want to fight their borders are closed from the day one. Because the people that want to fight should be kept in their country by force, North Korea style. I’m not sure how it works, but well.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#454

Post by andy_ppp »

lxgr wrote: post #83
euroderf wrote: post #73

So what's the solution ? Assign a surveillance UAV to every Russian ship parked "without a good reason" over a cable ? It would be expensive, but doable, and create a reserve of vehicles for wartime use.

That sounds borderline feasible – in a world where submarines don't exist.

I’m certain the sea is as mapped as you can possibly imagine, cutting say 50% of cables would lead to a lot of Russian ships sinking and a ban on them entering western waters. Their equipment is absolutely shit compared to ours and we know exactly where it all is. Surely they have been told this is a declaration of war which clearly they are scared of too.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#455

Post by lucianbr »

XorNot wrote: post #411
Demiurge wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it trying its hardest when it hasn’t declared a full scale mobilization, hasn’t closed its borders, or switched to war time economy?

Russia is absolutely in a full war time economy at the moment. There's nothing left to squeeze out of it and they're headed for a meltdown in 2025/2026.

> Russia is absolutely in a full war time economy at the moment.

So it would seem.

> There's nothing left to squeeze out of it and they're headed for a meltdown in 2025/2026.

Promises, promises. By the time 2026 rolls around, nobody will remember this comment to tell you how wrong you were.

I mean, you could be right. Who knows. The point is the future is uncertain, and using predictions as proof or arguments is stupid. Nobody knows what's going to happen 2 years out.

Did you know ahead of time they would get NK soldiers, NK artillery ammo, Iranian drones? What if Putin finds some clever ways of compensating for the losses? He's actively trying to improve his situation, not just sitting on his ass watching, as these predictions imply.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#456

Post by fractallyte »

geniusplanmate wrote: post #385
throw310822 wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe they'll take a leaf out of Russia or Israel's book As you yourself just pointed out a few lines line above this, there's no need to take a leaf out of anybody else's book: all the US' and NATO wars of the past decades have been presented as "special operations": e.g. the war against Serbia, the war against Iraq, the war against Afghanistan, etc.

Great successes by the way!

NATO's operation in Serbia actually prevented an imminent genocide in Kosovo. Serbs were emboldened by their "successes" in Croatia and Bosnia, and it took that long for the EU and NATO to finally summon up enough courage to do something proactive.

Comparing Russia to Serbia, the cliff of inaction seems almost insurmountable.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#457

Post by willvarfar »

andy_ppp wrote: post #454
lxgr wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds borderline feasible – in a world where submarines don't exist.

I’m certain the sea is as mapped as you can possibly imagine, cutting say 50% of cables would lead to a lot of Russian ships sinking and a ban on them entering western waters. Their equipment is absolutely shit compared to ours and we know exactly where it all is. Surely they have been told this is a declaration of war which clearly they are scared of too.

The russians have been investing heavily and have some very good kit

http://www.hisutton.com/Yantar.html

http://www.hisutton.com/Belgorod-Class-Submarine.html

http://www.hisutton.com/Russian-Spy-Submarine-BS-64e.html

and so on

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#458

Post by rightbyte »

zelon88 wrote: post #168
jjeaff wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

while outages definitely cause big problems in hospitals and schools, neither are completely dependent on connectivity in the short term. most hospitals are required to be able to operate critical services in an outage. even a full power outage. Schools will definitely be fine. they just may have a serious backlog of entering grades, absences, and payroll once things get back online.

> once things get back online. That would be like trying to cold start a power plant without any power. I think you're missing my point. I'm trying to point out that there are 3 "infrastructure providers" that our economy CANNOT live without. In a world war situation, these 3 organizations are going to be the biggest targets. They are literally our crown jewels. They will be under continuous attack from all angles. A…

[flagged]

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#459

Post by fractallyte »

usr1106 wrote: post #319
firebaze wrote: post #254

Nord Stream Part II

No. Nord Stream seem more and more having been an Ukrainian action. Maybe not official government, but obviously more in Ukrainian interest than in Russian. I can't see any Ukrainian interest an cutting internet between two of their supporters. Whether the support has been sufficient can be debated, but both are supporters. Germany among the top in absolute terms, Finland among the top relative to their own size. Yes…

It could be argued that it was more in US interests than Ukrainian... And, of course, the US was better resourced to carry out such an operation.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#460

Post by Hamuko »

usr1106 wrote: post #308
deliciousturkey wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be around 25 ms in normal conditions. That's what I got when pinging Hetzner in Germany, from Finland, when the cable was still in use and when using a connection that routes through the cable.

I am don't use Hetzner, but I use ssh between Finland and Germany every day. As a matter of fact even back and forth because of tunneling. After reading the news this morning (Hetzner incident is date 3:30 UTC) I was surpised that I had not noted any lag. It remained very reponsive all day.

I have a persistent VPN tunnel between Finland and Germany and I’ve not noticed really any disruptions. If it had cut out for even a moment, it would’ve interrupted my services (since they don’t recover gracefully at the moment) and I would’ve found out.
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