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Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

innocenceproject.org

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Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#451

Post by JellyBeanThief »

TrapLord_Rhodo wrote: post #434

Am i the only one in favor of capital punishment in this thread? My mom used to work at state hospital for the criminally insane. The stories she would tell me about how these people got in there were absolutely brutal. (Canabalism, satanic sacrafices of loved ones, all manor of wierd shit.). Instead of executing these lunatics, they send them to a "State Hospital" for rehabilitation. It's not a Prison, but a hospita…

> If i ever get falsely accused of a crime that would send me to jail for life i would beg for the death penalty.

That's your life and your choice, which I think should be respected.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#452

Post by mahmoudimus »

tptacek wrote: post #283
droopyEyelids wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true, but circumstantial evidence is seldom enough to have the DA bring a case to trial because it is weak evidence. At least, thats my impression im not a lawyer.

My understanding is that the opposite is closer to the truth: most cases are made on circumstantial evidence. Jury instructions apparently tell jurors not to weight it any differently than direct evidence.

This is indeed true. Most cases are made on circumstantial evidence.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#453

Post by calderarrow »

TrapLord_Rhodo wrote: post #434

Am i the only one in favor of capital punishment in this thread? My mom used to work at state hospital for the criminally insane. The stories she would tell me about how these people got in there were absolutely brutal. (Canabalism, satanic sacrafices of loved ones, all manor of wierd shit.). Instead of executing these lunatics, they send them to a "State Hospital" for rehabilitation. It's not a Prison, but a hospita…

I used to be, for most of the same reasons as you. What ultimately convinced me was realizing that our judicial system can never be 100% perfect, so we would always have a non-zero number of innocent people executed as long as capital punishment is on the table. To me, I think the cost of keeping people incarcerated is worth the cost of accidentally executing innocent citizens.

Put a bit more personally: would you support capital punishment if you had to pull the trigger, and you would be killed if you executed an innocent inmate? Most people I speak with would be fine pulling the trigger, but no one I’ve talked with would be okay with taking responsibility for mistakes.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#454

Post by widowlark »

TrapLord_Rhodo wrote: post #434

Am i the only one in favor of capital punishment in this thread? My mom used to work at state hospital for the criminally insane. The stories she would tell me about how these people got in there were absolutely brutal. (Canabalism, satanic sacrafices of loved ones, all manor of wierd shit.). Instead of executing these lunatics, they send them to a "State Hospital" for rehabilitation. It's not a Prison, but a hospita…

"Better a thousand innocent men are locked up than one guilty man roam free."

To clarify, I vehemently disagree with your post and think that the pursuit of innocence is an imperative function of the state.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#456

Post by t-writescode »

cxvrfr wrote: post #447
wiether wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't the US privatized incarceration so it's basically a _free_ market, where shady deals are made to funnel more public money to private entities, and many people are incentivized to have as many people in prison as possible? In that case, the cost on citizens for incarceration of people shouldn't be taken into account in the discussion around capital punishment because it's another issue altogether?

> Doesn't the US privatized Isn't that less than 10% of the market (i.e. most prisons are not private)

But how many services in prisons, like being able to be in a call with loved ones, are private?

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#457

Post by t-writescode »

jimt1234 wrote: post #207

I applaud the Innocence Project for taking this case, but honestly, Missouri? What did they expect? This is the same governor that tried to prosecute a newspaper reporter after they uncovered social security numbers in the HTML code from a state-run website. Then, when the governor was informed about how stupid his claim was, he doubled-down, insisting he would seek prosecution. https://www.npr.org/2021/10/14/1046124…

I imagine a team like The Innocence Project expects to lose most of their cases, but they try anyway because every life is worth saving.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#458

Post by TrapLord_Rhodo »

calderarrow wrote: post #453
TrapLord_Rhodo wrote: post #434

Am i the only one in favor of capital punishment in this thread? My mom used to work at state hospital for the criminally insane. The stories she would tell me about how these people got in there were absolutely brutal. (Canabalism, satanic sacrafices of loved ones, all manor of wierd shit.). Instead of executing these lunatics, they send them to a "State Hospital" for rehabilitation. It's not a Prison, but a hospita…

I used to be, for most of the same reasons as you. What ultimately convinced me was realizing that our judicial system can never be 100% perfect, so we would always have a non-zero number of innocent people executed as long as capital punishment is on the table. To me, I think the cost of keeping people incarcerated is worth the cost of accidentally executing innocent citizens. Put a bit more personally: would you su…

i think you missed my last line. That should answer your question. The government can never be perfect, and killing and innocent is a tragedy. However, you cannot cripple the whole system for this vanishgly small chance or you have an equal chance of success across the system. If you keep making those compromises, putting systems in place to correct the errors of past systems; it quickly becomes a losing game. Put more simply, If you lose trust in the system, you can't rely on the system to fix it.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#459

Post by foxyv »

calderarrow wrote: post #453
TrapLord_Rhodo wrote: post #434

Am i the only one in favor of capital punishment in this thread? My mom used to work at state hospital for the criminally insane. The stories she would tell me about how these people got in there were absolutely brutal. (Canabalism, satanic sacrafices of loved ones, all manor of wierd shit.). Instead of executing these lunatics, they send them to a "State Hospital" for rehabilitation. It's not a Prison, but a hospita…

I used to be, for most of the same reasons as you. What ultimately convinced me was realizing that our judicial system can never be 100% perfect, so we would always have a non-zero number of innocent people executed as long as capital punishment is on the table. To me, I think the cost of keeping people incarcerated is worth the cost of accidentally executing innocent citizens. Put a bit more personally: would you su…

I used to think that false convictions were rare. In capital cases like this one it is close to 4%! That made me think, is it worth killing 4 innocent people to avoid having to imprison 96 guilty ones for the rest of their life? If I went out with a gun and killed 100 people, 4 innocent and 96 justifiably, I may as well be number 97.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#460

Post by mystified5016 »

calderarrow wrote: post #453
TrapLord_Rhodo wrote: post #434

Am i the only one in favor of capital punishment in this thread? My mom used to work at state hospital for the criminally insane. The stories she would tell me about how these people got in there were absolutely brutal. (Canabalism, satanic sacrafices of loved ones, all manor of wierd shit.). Instead of executing these lunatics, they send them to a "State Hospital" for rehabilitation. It's not a Prison, but a hospita…

I used to be, for most of the same reasons as you. What ultimately convinced me was realizing that our judicial system can never be 100% perfect, so we would always have a non-zero number of innocent people executed as long as capital punishment is on the table. To me, I think the cost of keeping people incarcerated is worth the cost of accidentally executing innocent citizens. Put a bit more personally: would you su…

Another way to frame it:

Assume the justice system is perfect and only guilty people are executed. However, by law for every five or ten guilty executions, a random innocent civilian is also executed.

That system is obviously abhorrent and unjust. However, that's how the system works right now. For every N truly guilty people executed, there's a truly innocent person executed. The only difference is we justify it by calling that person guilty even if they aren't.

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