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Is Tor still safe to use?

blog.torproject.org

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Re: Is Tor still safe to use?

#451

Post by jrochkind1 »

alasdair_ wrote: post #35

Here is what I don't understand: Let's say I as a private individual fund 1000 tor nodes (guard and exit nodes included) and have them all log everything. This could cost less than $5000 for a month, with some time needed to get guard node status. I want to find a certain kind of person so I look for people that access a specific hidden service or clearnet url. Surely eventually I'm going to get a hit where all three…

I think so.

And of course for a state-level actor, they can afford a couple orders of magnitude more spend prob too.

Re: Is Tor still safe to use?

#452

Post by Workaccount2 »

trompetenaccoun wrote: post #380
giantg2 wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Specifically what I chose US (allies implied), China, and Russia. These should be three competing factions.

Russia and China are allies. And I'm not sure if Beijing would even be interested in spying on TOR users since it's blocked so thoroughly it's basically unusable for Chinese residents.

China and Russia are decidedly not allies.

They are neighbors with some overlapping interests and sort of similar goals if you squint. It wasn't very long ago that they were killing each other over border conflicts and annexed territory.

China right now is just using Russia for cheap energy, they don't actually care about the health of the state.

Re: Is Tor still safe to use?

#453

Post by pc86 »

Vegenoid wrote: post #243
cypherpunks01 wrote: post #168

Remember the Harvard student that emailed in a bomb threat via Tor to get out of a final exam in 2013? He got caught not by the FBI breaking Tor, but just by network analysis of university network traffic logs showing a very narrow list of on-campus people using Tor at the time the threat was communicated. He quickly confessed when interviewed. https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/files/2013/1... Just anot…

If he simply didn’t confess, they likely could not have proven it was him - but yes, it is best to avoid suspicion altogether.

As relevant today as it has ever been: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE - "Don't Talk to the Police" by Regent Law professor James Duane (2012). 19M views for a reason, it's a great talk that I've watched a couple times now. And a former cop who was an L3 at the time of the video also speaks very convincingly on the topic, and about how the only times people who they knew were guilty but couldn't prove it got away were when they lawyered up and shut up immediately.

As always there are caveats that he goes into regarding how to assert the right and all that but the major thrust is if the police want to talk to you for any reason, just don't. Lots of great stories, too.

You are under no legal obligation to assist police in their investigations. Give only the information you are legally required to (varies by state and whether it's a consensual encounter, detainment, arrest, etc.), and no more. If you're arrested say you want an attorney and you will not answer questions until they arrive.

Re: Is Tor still safe to use?

#454

Post by jrochkind1 »

ranger_danger wrote: post #443
INTPenis wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I ran tor exit nodes on Linode and Digitalocean for years. No real issues, but you will get regular abuse complaints. The support teams always understood once I explained it was a tor exit node. I co-operated with the Cloud provider and added any IP-address that requested it to my list of exempt addresses.

> The support teams always understood But they don't have to. It could also be against their ToS, and many other providers would not have been ok with it. Accounts and domains have been taken away for much less.

Right, which is why it's informative to hear a report that DO and linode did!

Re: Is Tor still safe to use?

#455

Post by [deleted] »

flufluflufluffy wrote: post #449

As knowledgeable users of the Internet in 2024, we would do well to assume that nothing is 100% “safe” (I.e. there’s no such thing as perfect security/privacy). However, some things, like Tor, can make your use of the Internet safer . If all you’re doing is arguing that Tor shouldn’t be used because it isn’t/was never “safe”, then you might as well not use the Internet at all.

[deleted]

Re: Is Tor still safe to use?

#456

Post by jrochkind1 »

aftbit wrote: post #267
bawolff wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the threat model is that the majority are not run by cooperating malicious parties. Russia, china and usa all dont like each other much so are probably not sharing notes (in theory).

Or perhaps they _are_ sharing notes about tor users with each other, as part of a global club of intelligence agencies (a sort of new world order) who would rather not be overthrown. How are we to know?

Or perhaps someone with secret quantum computing can break all our encryption and has full transparency on all communications on the internet. Perhaps extraterrestrials are eavesdropping on everything I say in my living room, and sharing it with the KGB. How are we to know?

Re: Is Tor still safe to use?

#457

Post by toby- »

flufluflufluffy wrote: post #449

As knowledgeable users of the Internet in 2024, we would do well to assume that nothing is 100% “safe” (I.e. there’s no such thing as perfect security/privacy). However, some things, like Tor, can make your use of the Internet safer . If all you’re doing is arguing that Tor shouldn’t be used because it isn’t/was never “safe”, then you might as well not use the Internet at all.

Agreed – you can never truly be completely "safe", but Tor remains the most privacy-preserving tool we've got.

When people say they're distrustful of Tor (for various reasons) to the extent they refuse to use it, they seldom suggest alternative tools/measures that provide anywhere near the level of safety offered by Tor.

Re: Is Tor still safe to use?

#458

Post by jrochkind1 »

keepamovin wrote: post #384
throwaway37821 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

75% [0] of all Tor nodes are hosted within 14 Eyes [1] countries, so it would actually be quite trivial for the NSA to de-anonymize a Tor user. It baffles me that Tor Browser doesn't provide an easy way to blacklist relays in those countries. [0] Here, you can do the math yourself: https://metrics.torproject.org/rs.html#aggregate/all [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes#Fourteen_Eyes > Edit: For all the cynics…

The original purpose of TOR was to provide agents and handlers with a means of secure communication, allowing them to organize subversive or espionage activities. It was created by the Department of Defense to propagate their interests and spread democracy around the world using these secure capabilities. Given this context, it's not unreasonable to assume that TOR is still being used in a similar manner today. Becau…

> The original purpose of TOR was to provide agents and handlers with a means of secure communication, allowing them to organize subversive or espionage activities. It was created by the Department of Defense to propagate their interests and spread democracy around the world using these secure capabilities.

Do you think the EFF was in on it, duped, or just thought multiple competing interests could be served?

Re: Is Tor still safe to use?

#459

Post by friendzis »

flufluflufluffy wrote: post #449

As knowledgeable users of the Internet in 2024, we would do well to assume that nothing is 100% “safe” (I.e. there’s no such thing as perfect security/privacy). However, some things, like Tor, can make your use of the Internet safer . If all you’re doing is arguing that Tor shouldn’t be used because it isn’t/was never “safe”, then you might as well not use the Internet at all.

But that's half the point. If someone has an intention to undergo some illegal activities with full intention not to be caught, only 100% "safe" solution works for them. Normally we talk about risk tolerance, but this particular use case is a bit special.

Re: Is Tor still safe to use?

#460

Post by [deleted] »

panarky wrote: post #271
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> could capture the sessions of 10,940 criminals in a given month Let’s say to do that, and now you have found 10k people accessing pirate bay in countries where it is blocked. Also you captured someone who lives in Siberia and watches illegal porn, now what? Many of these will not be actionable, like not criminals you would have interest in.

An autocratic regime of a large nation locks up its critics and other undesirables in camps. 100,000 activists who haven't been caught yet switch to Tor for anonymity. For $60,000, the regime monitors Tor for a year, identifies 6,500 activists, and marches them off to the camps. And by discrediting Tor the regime pushes the other 93,500 activists even farther underground, constraining their ability to recruit, limiti…

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