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Air Con: $1697 for an on/off switch

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Re: Air Con: $1697 for an on/off switch

#451

Post by voyagerfan5761 »

tracker1 wrote: post #417
raxxorraxor wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would switch brands instantly. This is a company that has no customer orientation and I have never seen a company recover from that (they might have financial success, but they will never create good products again). They probably will sell you expensive crap. This time the device was fixable, but the manufacturer worked against the user on that.

So, you'd rather spend $12k+ to replace the entire system just to spite the manufacturer over making a minor patch to support a new tablet yourself?

Shouldn't have to replace the aircon/heat-pump components, only the controller hardware. OP indicated that a new control system would be about $1700 (I assume AUD), or 14-17% of their 10k-12k estimate for the whole build.

Unless this scummy manufacturer also works with the aircon makers to lock those to their controllers. (That would be a great lawsuit to watch.)

Re: Air Con: $1697 for an on/off switch

#452

Post by cyberax »

cameldrv wrote: post #401
gstar wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It 100% is designed so that you have to use their hardware.

The biggest maker of garage door openers in the U.S. has done the same thing. For a button that goes on the wall to open the door, now it sends an encrypted code instead of just shorting two wires so that you have to use their button instead of a regular doorbell button like people have been doing for decades.

I can't recommend ratgdo (Rage Against the Garage Door Openers) project highly enough. It implements the protocol and allows you to interact with the door: https://paulwieland.github.io/ratgdo/

The protocol itself is crazy, with obfuscated ternary data (instead of binary). People who reversed it are heroes.

Re: Air Con: $1697 for an on/off switch

#453

Post by cyberax »

dfox wrote: post #433
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IR is fine for these things, it's not like they need much data. I have an IR ceiling fan, no issues there (even if the receiver is on a little wire that is supposed to stick to something but the sticktivity of the tape sucked), and a radio "smart" lighting system (just simple on / off switch on a plug socket). And some radio spots from IKEA, although I'm sure that can be hooked up to a "smart" system.

IKEA has consistent smart system that has the annoying feature that it works the wrong-way around for my use-case. The cheap IKEA switches can control IKEA peripherals only directly, you can't use them to control something outside of the IKEA ecosystem. As most of the things I want to control are either HomeKit native things or digital outputs on PLCs it does not work for me. So in the spirit of true overkill I have…

> The cheap IKEA switches can control IKEA peripherals only directly, you can't use them to control something outside of the IKEA ecosystem.

You can! Just pair them with a ZigBee hub directly.

Re: Air Con: $1697 for an on/off switch

#454

Post by DCH3416 »

rpcope1 wrote: post #382
cyberax wrote: post #98

Ugh. The whole "smart aircon" industry needs a good-sized asteroid wiping them out of the existence. There is a very real need for modern variable-speed units, and vendors just keep fucking it up by using proprietary protocols locked into their ecosystem. TRANE in the US is similar. And this is really annoying because variable-speed pumps solve all the problems with short cycling and oversized systems.

I am looking at replacing my A/C system, and having worked on the single stage single speed one that's currently installed, and looking at the insane shit everyone ships that's more complicated than your basic gas forced air furnace coupled with a single stage 16 seer A/C unit, there's no way I would ever buy something else. Every parts house has got inexpensive replacements in stock for the simpler units and service…

It just takes time for all this stuff to iron itself out. Consider how long it took for practically every heating and A/C system to become largely the same.

Re: Air Con: $1697 for an on/off switch

#455

Post by TrackerFF »

lelandfe wrote: post #4

> For whatever reason (I suspect some sort of storage failure) everyone’s tablets die around the same time. What a fun, completely coincidental quirk that that time appears to fall outside the warranty window, hey?

Component failures happen.

I had a Phillips 4K LED TV I purchased on sale in April 2021. The TV was glitchy, and I'd get all sorts of weird problems with it - but nothing really terrible.

Then two weeks into January this year, the picture suddenly becomes a jumbled mess of vertical stripes. One second it's fine, the next second it's broken.

Luckily we have a general 5 year warranty period here in Norway, and TVs are expected to last for at least 5 years. I called the shop, and they told me to just bring the TV.

When I get there with the TV, I notice two other identical TVs. I check out the note that hangs on them, and see that they are broken, with the same symptoms as mine. Both had purchase dates around March / April 2021.

I can only assume some component failure.

Re: Air Con: $1697 for an on/off switch

#456

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #228
ivraatiems wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost like all the tablets fail around the same time because they're made in the same shoddy way, forcing system replacements every so many years...

They skimped on the tablet, grabbing a <$100 device for cheap. It should be a ruggedized / semi-industrial device with an expected lifetime as long as the device it controls, so at least 15-20 years.

That would set them back at least $800 (2021 prices: last time I had to spec a ruggedized tablet), which probably means $1200 out of the customer's pocket.

OTOH, they can find an industrial display + a Linux SoM (system-on-module) that can run linux or Android for under $200 in quantity.

Same diff though: no one cared, so they got what was cheap.

Re: Air Con: $1697 for an on/off switch

#457

Post by passwordoops »

stuff4ben wrote: post #381
Gabrys1 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think they'll care about this. Probably only 1% of their customers are capable of "hacking" this. As long as the tablet replace is cheaper than getting a new AC unit from another company it's fine for them.

Until someone decides to sell their fix at a cheaper price. Then lawyers will get involved and everyone will end up unhappy.

Except the lawyers

Re: Air Con: $1697 for an on/off switch

#458

Post by quickthrowman »

xvector wrote: post #420
quickthrowman wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technology doesn’t matter, it’s all about relationships between dealers and manufacturers (or dealer/distributor/manufacturer, I am unfamiliar with this particular industry.) That holds true both for HVAC and pool equipment (and fire alarm systems, irrigation, etc etc) If you can’t sell your product to the dealers because there in bed with the incumbents and the incumbent products generate service call work for the d…

You offer direct to consumer sales and cut out the dealer-distributor corruption pipeline - like Tesla, Nest, etc.

Pool equipment isn’t usable out of the box like a car or a thermostat, someone has to install it and service/maintain it.

Unless you want to build your own nationwide network of installers, you’re relying on third parties who already have existing relationships with pool equipment suppliers, which is why I said it’s a people problem and not a tech problem.

Re: Air Con: $1697 for an on/off switch

#459

Post by mst »

dbetteridge wrote: post #111
gstar wrote: post #70

OMFG; I am in Perth, I have the same system, the very same problem and solved it almost the same way and was in the process of writing it up. The system uses RS422, with a base64 encoded AES key in the aaservice binary, and I was contemplating building an esp32 based open source implementation of the controller. That's a crazy weird coincidence.

For a small place there's a lot of sandgropers on HN somehow

I'm sure the timezone will tick over to the sheepshaggers instead shortly.

Re: Air Con: $1697 for an on/off switch

#460

Post by mst »

ranebo wrote: post #45
redact207 wrote: post #6

I love that this man resurrected his blog after 10 years just to write this. Anger and spite are strong motivators.

You have no idea how true this is :). I had to upgrade everything, the old site didn't even have SSL. But this annoyed me so much I wanted others to know how to fix it.

My best open source work is pretty much entirely in the 'Rage Driven Development' category.

(solid post, also solid rant, mate)

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