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Apple unveils 'Passwords' manager app at WWDC 2024

zdnet.com

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Re: Apple unveils 'Passwords' manager app at WWDC 2024

#451

Post by nottorp »

jesseendahl wrote: post #411
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's putting password management into the same basket as the device. Suppose your Apple ID gets compromised. The attacker is a jerk and decides to remote erase your device. Then they use your account for black hat stuff and get it permanently banned, or just erase everything on iCloud too. If the password manager was a different service then you'd still have the password for that service and could get in and recover…

I think you might be making some assumptions about how this stuff works without looking into it. - A lot (most?) people’s Apple Account name is actually their main email address (e.g. Gmail), so they would still control their email address even if their Apple Account was compromised. - You can still recover your Apple Account and iCloud Keychain without any devices (e.g. if phone broke like in your scenario). - Your…

> - A lot (most?) people’s Apple Account name is actually their main email address (e.g. Gmail), so they would still control their email address even if their Apple Account was compromised.

But the login for the Gmail address is a passkey that's on the Apple account...

> - You can still recover your Apple Account and iCloud Keychain without any devices (e.g. if phone broke like in your scenario).

So what's the point of passkeys if you can get access to them without passkeys?

> - Your passkeys stored in iCloud Keychain are still protected even if your Apple Account has been compromised.

How can something be protected when the thing that controls access to it has been compromised?

Re: Apple unveils 'Passwords' manager app at WWDC 2024

#452

Post by nottorp »

makeitdouble wrote: post #324
bandyaboot wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m curious to know what you’re thinking as far as what bad outcome(s) will or may result from people choosing this over some other password manager.

The most basic scenario: Someone use their phone as their only computing device (e.g. only other device is their school or work computer). Their phone dies and the shop convinces them to go for a Pixel 9. How screwed are they if everything was in iCloud, vs they were using 1Password ?

No, the most basic scenario is:

Someone uses their phone as their only computing device.

Their phone gets destroyed or stolen while they're far away from home to require a plane flight to get back. Perhaps stolen along with their ID.

How do you recover when your logins are passkey only and the passkeys are gone with the stolen phone?

Re: Apple unveils 'Passwords' manager app at WWDC 2024

#453

Post by stavros »

pmontra wrote: post #437
doctor_eval wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? That’s how I log into GitHub!

I stopped logging in into there since they forced 2FA on me because of an old contribution to an open source project. It's too much of a pain and I don't need to be logged in to look at the code of the modules or libraries I'm using or I could use. As collateral damage, I stopped opening issues on open source projects, that was maybe two or three issues per year. All my customers are on Bitbucket at the moment and it…

It amazes me the lengths people will go to to avoid security.

Re: Apple unveils 'Passwords' manager app at WWDC 2024

#454

Post by AlexandrB »

gregoriol wrote: post #383
rickharrison wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1password has progressively gotten worse every year for the past 5-10. 1password team if you are reading this, please stop making your software worse. Search which was great for years is now terrible and has jumbled results. Some software should just be considered "done" and never changed again. 1Password is one of those things.

I still use 1Password 7

Yup. Wish I could go back to 6 because 7 feels noticeable slower, but 8 is a non-starter due to the lack of self-hosting or local vault options. I also hate how a bunch of "babysitting" features are forced on you in later (after 5 or so) 1Password releases. I don't want Watchtower to be pegged to the top of the sidebar - but there it is anyways. I don't want to set a password hint for the master password, but I'm forced to regardless.

Re: Apple unveils 'Passwords' manager app at WWDC 2024

#455

Post by AlexandrB »

yreg wrote: post #314
rickharrison wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1password has progressively gotten worse every year for the past 5-10. 1password team if you are reading this, please stop making your software worse. Search which was great for years is now terrible and has jumbled results. Some software should just be considered "done" and never changed again. 1Password is one of those things.

>1password has progressively gotten worse every year for the past 5-10. You can still use the standalone 1Password 6…

A lot of the browser integrations are broken if you run older releases I think. Even 7 doesn't work with Chrome anymore.

Re: Apple unveils 'Passwords' manager app at WWDC 2024

#456

Post by data-ottawa »

ipqk wrote: post #127

I've been an avid 1Password user for over 10 years, but since they gone full-throttle targeting the enterprise market, I'm getting more and more annoyed. It's increasingly buggy (right now, it thinks I haven't migrated from 1p7 which causes annoying interstitials that I can't close. Over a month and no fix yet.). They killed standalone vaults. Obvious feature requests (e.g archive an entire vault) sit there for years…

Ever since Apple added password management to Safari it’s been clear that 1Password was going to get Sherlocked, the switch to enterprise mashes perfect sense from a corporate perspective. Chrome and Firefox offer the same features, so now every browser is competing too.

I’m finding most of the friction with 1Password I run into is actually Apple competing for autofill in Safari creating two completely different UIs above every form element.

The other issue I have is Safari Home apps not supporting extensions so you can only use Safari’s built in manager. I think that’s fixed in Sequoia.

Re: Apple unveils 'Passwords' manager app at WWDC 2024

#457

Post by MissTake »

Zach_the_Lizard wrote: post #443
esskay wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counter point - in what ways is macOS 'closed' and Windows not? And I am specifically talking about macOS, not iOS.

MacOS is only licensed for use in Apple branded hardware, as I understand it. Even running it in a VM could be problematic if that host isn't running MacOS.

True. However I can (and have multiple times) migrate from machine to machine without needing to reinstall everything.

My work MacBook was pulled from an original Air from something like 2015, to a 2017 Pro and currently my 2019 Pro.

So I’ve got apps installed on my Mac that have been installed damn near 10 years ago.

Ditto my home 2015 Pro was later on migrated to a M1 Air. Hell, I’ve still some 32 Bit Steam games that still somehow run on my Air (least Steam tells me they’re 32 bit).

We could play this game ad-infinitum, each finding a level of supposed “openness” but the basic facts are that neither Windows, nor MacOS are truly open.

If you want open, then Linux is always going to be in the answer somewhere. Not MS Windows. And not Apple MacOS.

Re: Apple unveils 'Passwords' manager app at WWDC 2024

#458

Post by EGreg »

basisword wrote: post #218
cletus wrote: post #168

Here's Apple's big problem: it's not a replacement for so many alternatives because it isn't supported on all platforms. Safari? Not on Windows. Apple Music? This actually has a Windows client. I'm not sure how good it is. But Spotify supports Windows and even Linux. Apple Password Manager? Will this be tied to iCloud? Will I be able to use it on Android? If I no longer have an iPhone will it be a pain to maintain an…

>> People don't want everything tied to one identity, one service, one login. I think this is exactly what _most_ people want. With password management specifically, Apple has had a Chrome extension available for a while now which has allowed me to use it on other browsers/platforms. Not ideal, but good enough for most. On top of that, they don't lock you in with passwords. You can easily import and export your passw…

> I think this is exactly what _most_ people want.

Yes, and they should have it. As open source software that a free market of hosting companies can compete on price and quality for. Not as closed source software hosting by a Big Tech oligopoly.

You should be able to host your info on a server of your choice, encrypted end-to-end from your devices. That server is the one which should collect payments, manage subscriptions, do access control checks, and deliver data to others. That server is the one which should send notifications and push news updates to your devices as well as subscribers’ devices. You should always be able to migrate easily to another server, or use several at once, as fallbacks.

People have learned helplessness (“oh I wish Twitter would add feature X”, “oh, I guess we all have to get a Google Plus account”, “oh, sucks that Google Plus and all my data and social connections there are going away”) because open source developers didn’t stick around long enough to make something that is good enough to compete with it, and is decentralized and federated.

I can count on one hand: Mastodon. Bluesky.

I am working on fixing it: https://github.com/Qbix/Platform

Larger vision for 2025 and later: https://qbix.com/ecosystem

Re: Apple unveils 'Passwords' manager app at WWDC 2024

#460

Post by nicce »

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #406
basisword wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> People don't want everything tied to one identity, one service, one login. I think this is exactly what _most_ people want. With password management specifically, Apple has had a Chrome extension available for a while now which has allowed me to use it on other browsers/platforms. Not ideal, but good enough for most. On top of that, they don't lock you in with passwords. You can easily import and export your passw…

Luckily, _most_ people don't buy overpriced and closed Apple devices.

Many could disagree about the pricing of MacBooks, for example.

M Pro series are probably the best laptops on the market, and if people keep buying them, is the price too much?

MacBook Air is actually quite well priced for what you get.

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