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Apple introduces M4 chip

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Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#451

Post by numpad0 »

mort96 wrote: post #286
akshayt wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are referring to integrated npus in current cpus like in the intel cote ultra. They explicitly mentioned in the event that the industry refers to the neural engine as a NPU

But the word they used isn't "NPU" or "neural engine" but "AI PC"??? If I build a PC with a ton of GPU power with the intention of using that compute for machine learning then that's an "AI PC"

Microsoft/Intel are trying to push this "AI-enabled PC" or whatever for few months, to obsolete laptops without NPU stuffed in unused I/O die space of CPU. Apple weaponized that in this instance.

1: https://www.theregister.com/2024/03/12/what_is_an_ai_pc/

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#452

Post by tiltowait »

daniel31x13 wrote: post #46

Well at the end of the day the processors are bottlenecked by its OS. What real value does an iPad bring that a typical iPhone + Mac combo misses? (Other than being a digital notebook…)

I often prefer (as in enjoy) using my iPad Pro over my 16" M1 MBP, but I think the only thing my iPad is actually better for is drawing.

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#453

Post by grzeshru »

culopatin wrote: post #413
grzeshru wrote: post #105

Are these M-class chips available to be purchased on Digi-Key and Mouser? Do they have data sheets and recommended circuitry? I’d love to play with one just to see how difficult it is to integrate compared to, say, an stm8/32 or something.

Did you really expect a yes?

I didn’t know what to expect. I thought they may license it to other companies under particular clauses or some such.

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#454

Post by adrian_b »

whynotminot wrote: post #412
adrian_b wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Most Powerful Neural Engine Ever While it is true that the claimed performance for M4 is better than for the current Intel Meteor Lake and AMD Hawk Point, it is also significantly lower (e.g. around half) than the AI performance claimed for the laptop CPU+GPU+NPU models that both Intel and AMD will introduce in the second half of this year (Arrow Lake and Strix Point).

> will introduce Incredible that in the future there will be better chips than what Apple is releasing now.

The point is that it is a very near future, a few months away.

Apple is also bragging very hyperbolically that the NPU they introduce right now is faster than all the older NPUs.

So, while what Apple says, "The Most Powerful Neural Engine Ever" is true now, it will be true for only a few months. Apple has done a good job, so as it is normal, at launch their NPU is the fastest. However this does not deserve any special praise, it is just normal, as normal as the fact that the next NPU launched by a competitor will be faster.

Only if the new Apple NPU would have been slower than the older models, that would have been a newsworthy failure. A newsworthy success would have been only if the new M4 would have had at least a triple performance than it has, so that the competitors would have needed more than a year to catch up with it.

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#455

Post by quasarj »

themagician wrote: post #421
simonbarker87 wrote: post #21

Seeing an M series chip launch first in an iPad must be result of some mad supply chain and manufacturing related hangovers from COVID. If the iPad had better software and could be considered a first class productivity machine then it would be less surprising but the one thing no one says about the iPads is “I wish this chip were faster”

Welcome to being old! Watch a 20-year old creative work on an iPad and you will quickly change your mind. Watch someone who has, "never really used a desktop, [I] just use an iPad" work in Procreate or LumaFusion. The iPad has amazing software. Better, in many ways, than desktop alternatives if you know how to use it. There are some things they can't do, and the workflow can be less flexible or full featured in some…

They can have my keyboard when they pry it from my cold dead hands! And my mouse, for that matter.

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#456

Post by stetrain »

mort96 wrote: post #286
akshayt wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are referring to integrated npus in current cpus like in the intel cote ultra. They explicitly mentioned in the event that the industry refers to the neural engine as a NPU

But the word they used isn't "NPU" or "neural engine" but "AI PC"??? If I build a PC with a ton of GPU power with the intention of using that compute for machine learning then that's an "AI PC"

"AI PC" is a specific marketing term from Intel and Microsoft. I don't think their specs include dual RTX 4090s.

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/intel-shares...

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#457

Post by rsp1984 »

Together with next-generation ML accelerators in the CPU, the high-performance GPU, and higher-bandwidth unified memory, the Neural Engine makes M4 an outrageously powerful chip for AI.

In case it is not abundantly clear by now: Apple's AI strategy is to put inference (and longer term even learning) on edge devices. This is completely coherent with their privacy-first strategy (which would be at odds with sending data up to the cloud for processing).

Processing data at the edge also makes for the best possible user experience because of the complete independence of network connectivity and hence minimal latency.

If (and that's a big if) they keep their APIs open to run any kind of AI workload on their chips it's a strategy that I personally really really welcome as I don't want the AI future to be centralised in the hands of a few powerful cloud providers.

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#458

Post by dmitrygr »

ilikehurdles wrote: post #437
EduardoBautista wrote: post #13

The 256gb and 512gb models have 8gb of ram. The 1tb and 2tb models have 16gb. Not a fan of tying ram to storage. https://www.apple.com/ipad-pro/specs/

The iPod classic had 160 GB of storage fifteen years ago. No device should be measuring storage in the gigabytes in 2024. Let alone starting at $1000 offering only 256GB. What ridiculousness.

So browse the web and play modern games on an iPod classic

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#459

Post by numpad0 »

NorwegianDude wrote: post #264

> M4 has Apple’s fastest Neural Engine ever, capable of up to 38 trillion operations per second, which is faster than the neural processing unit of any AI PC today. I always wonder what crazy meds Apple employees are on. Two RTX 4090s is quite common for hobbyist use, and that is 1321 TOPS each, making two over 69 times more than what Apple claims to be the fastest in the world. That performance is literally less tha…

Also the 38 TOPS figure is kind of odd. Intel had already shown laptop CPUs with 45 TOPS NPU[1] though it hasn't shipped, and Windows 12 is rumored to require 40 TOPS. If I'm doing math right, (int)38 falls short of both.

1: https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/intel-says-l...

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#460

Post by krunck »

rsp1984 wrote: post #457

Together with next-generation ML accelerators in the CPU, the high-performance GPU, and higher-bandwidth unified memory, the Neural Engine makes M4 an outrageously powerful chip for AI. In case it is not abundantly clear by now: Apple's AI strategy is to put inference (and longer term even learning) on edge devices. This is completely coherent with their privacy-first strategy (which would be at odds with sending dat…

Yes, that would be great. But without the ability for us to verify this who's to say they won't use the edge resources(your computer and electricity) to process data(your data) and then send the results to their data center? It would certainly save them a lot of money.
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