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Did we lose our way in making efficient software?

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Re: Did we lose our way in making efficient software?

#451

Post by p0w3n3d »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #422
p0w3n3d wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the decision to shift towards web apps and electron apps is mostly because of the cheapness of the development, and binding to service-oriented architecture thus monthly payment... in other words: money

That kind of is the point. That's just the latest iteration of this. You could have made the same argument about writing a business application in visual basic vs. writing something in C/C++. The latter required more time and skills. Both of which cost money. Which is why visual basic was so popular. It's also why cobol caught on in the sixties even though there were more optimal things around even then. And hardware…

However I could see a paradigm shift towards standalone apps if there was a proper language or C++ mod increasing its usability and easiness, AND there was no pressure to do so much on cloud-based.

Also interoperability I guess is a problem (html really IS a consistent UI for every platform)

Re: Did we lose our way in making efficient software?

#452

Post by _aavaa_ »

eviks wrote: post #339
_aavaa_ wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counter offer: the tooling is ultimately for their benefit. They need the apps to make their platform what it is.

They ultimately need money, not apps or platforms, so this is exactly how they achieve that ultimate benefit, no top-level logic will just justify free here

I mean by that logic, no top level logic will justify a cut of all revenue.

They want to be feudal lords, requiring us to pay a tithing for the privilege of selling something to customers.

Re: Did we lose our way in making efficient software?

#453

Post by vilunov »

Nevermark wrote: post #412
hoseja wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People aren't ignoring Apple hard enough. Why americans bother with it is way beyond me.

I find it inexplicable when people respond to a particular problem with a suggestion on which large platform/ecosystem someone should use instead, or avoid. Switching ecosystems is nowhere near that trivial. Ecosystem choices are dependent on content and tool investments, other devices owned, product groups, integrated technologies, network effects between people, between companies, customer relationships, existing p…

I'd go further and state that "ecosystems" are evil as they erode competition. It should be easy to change products independently of each other, e.g. I should be free to choose between Apple iCloud or Google Photos for storing my photo library. Instead I'm forced to experience what you already mentioned: integration preferences on different platforms, network effects and so on.

Only direct product properties should drive users' choices, everything else just raises the market entry barrier for potential competitors.

Re: Did we lose our way in making efficient software?

#454

Post by n8henrie »

wredue wrote: post #303
fragmede wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't sign your binaries on macOS, the friction for the user to run your app is prohibitive, outside of developer-focused communities.

I’m not sure what is “prohibitive” about pressing literally one button.

On macOS? One button?

Re: Did we lose our way in making efficient software?

#455

Post by tppiotrowski »

eviks wrote: post #345
tppiotrowski wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd think so until you look into doing it yourself. It's more work than building a simple app.

And you'd thinking would reverse again to the common sense baseline when you realize that alternative providers outside of locked systems don't charge 30%

Can you name a provider? I personally use Stripe Tax for my business and while they will calculate the taxes you owe in each municipality it is totally on you to create an account with each country/state's Department of Revenue and fill out a form quarterly to submit your payments.

This paperwork is what I believe a marketplace like the App Store or Amazon do for you under their own entity that you have to do yourself if you bypass their stores.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Re: Did we lose our way in making efficient software?

#456

Post by tppiotrowski »

bdw5204 wrote: post #343
tppiotrowski wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every company selling goods and services to European customers needs to collect value-added tax (VAT), even if their business is not established in Europe. https://stripe.com/guides/introduction-to-eu-vat-and-vat-oss

> Enforcement of judgments issued by foreign courts in the United States is governed by the laws of the states. Enforcement cannot be accomplished by means of letters rogatory in the United States. Under U.S. law, an individual seeking to enforce a foreign judgment, decree or order in this country must file suit before a competent court. The court will determine whether to recognize and enforce the foreign judgment.…

> Obviously, its not a good idea to bet your business on the courts not enforcing an EU fine

Right. Plus it might hinder your ability to travel freely in those jurisdictions as well which I'd like to avoid.

Re: Did we lose our way in making efficient software?

#457

Post by NoGravitas »

Animats wrote: post #285
fragmede wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd check your .bashrc because that shouldn't be happening without your say so.

.bashrc hasn't change since 2021. But Ubuntu pushed a new /usr/bin/bash in mid-March.

It's more likely to be system-provided config files like bash-completions.

Re: Did we lose our way in making efficient software?

#458

Post by tempodox »

s1k3s wrote: post #6

I want to make native apps but Apple and Microsoft seem to be trying really hard to stop me. I have to buy developer accounts, buy certificates for signing binaries, share 30% of my revenue with them for barely any reason and so on. Not to mention the mess they've introduced in their APIs - especially Microsoft. So of course we choose the much simpler, much cheaper way of the web.

> we choose the much simpler, much cheaper way of the web.

Once the beancounters at the rent-seeking companies (Apple, Microsoft, …) have figured out that web development is where all the money is, this will change rapidly. Google has already started gatekeeping the web via Chrome.

Re: Did we lose our way in making efficient software?

#459

Post by NoGravitas »

jimmaswell wrote: post #307
alerighi wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that makes me crazy is that the thing that we do on computers are basically the same each year, yet software are more and more heavy. For example just in 2010 a Linux distribution with a DE just started did consume 100Mb of RAM, an optimized version 60Mb of RAM. I remember it perfectly. I had 2Gb of RAM and did not have even a swap partition. Now just a decade later, a computer with less than 8Gb of RAM is…

I have a Macintosh Plus, SE, 7200, and iMac G3 (System 6, 6, 7, 9) I've been using for fun lately after fixing many of them up. Even with real SCSI harddrives in the SE, 7200, and iMac, they're such a joy to use compared to a modern OS. Often much more responsive, UI is always more consistent, not to mention better aesthetics. They really don't make software like they used to. A web browser or OS should not be slow o…

System 7 runs so fast in BasiliskII on an old Atom netbook. I recently saw a video showing System 6 running in an emulator on an ESP32 microcontroller on an expansion card in an Apple II. It was substantially faster than the Mac Plus it was emulating. It really takes seeing this kind of thing to understand the magnitude of the problem.

Re: Did we lose our way in making efficient software?

#460

Post by NoGravitas »

noahtallen wrote: post #387
ponector wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that is true. My laptop with windows, i7, nvme, 32gb ram now feels the same as my old laptop with i7, SSD and 16gb ram did 7 years ago. Bloat ware everywhere, especially browsers.

This whole thread needs a huge amount of salt and some empirical examples. I think if you compared side-by-side it’d be different. I remember my upgrade from 2019 MacBook to M1, when every single task felt about 50% faster. Or from swapping a window laptop’s HDD with an SSD. (Absolutely massive performance improvement!) Waiting forever for older windows computers to boot, update, index or search files, install softwa…

> I bet you could write a book on the new features and more advanced tools that MS Excel offers today compared to 1995.

I'm sure you could, but it would be of interest to a relatively small audience. Excel 95 would be fine for about 90% of Excel users.

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