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You are what you read, even if you don't always remember it

blog.jim-nielsen.com

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Re: You are what you read, even if you don't always remember it

#451

Post by piloto_ciego »

Kbelicius wrote: post #428
piloto_ciego wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free will is absolutely largely about making choices. That’s not all of it, but denying that is silly, it’s goal post shifting from the ones who don’t believe in it.

> Free will is absolutely largely about making choices. Free will largely isn't about making choices or having choices. It is largely about how/why we make choices. Bacteria can move, thus bacteria have a choice of direction in which to move. Bacteria move, so it is making a choice. If GP has free will just because they made a choice to write a reply to you, as you claim, then it must follow that bacteria also have f…

Responding to stimuli with a reflex is not a choice.

Re: You are what you read, even if you don't always remember it

#452

Post by LocalH »

piloto_ciego wrote: post #85
ixsploit wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are you experiencing free will? You have no idea what your next thought will be, nor can you control it. You have the opinion that you have free will, but that doesn't mean it's true.

You can’t choose what you will think about? How do you get through the day? Are you just frequently blindsided by random non-sequiturs that derail you for hours? I routinely chose things to think about or things to concentrate on. It’s not like all thoughts leap into my mind fully formed either. Hell, I edited this message before hitting reply.

Let me introduce you to a little dopamine imbalance I like to call "focus control disorder", better known as Attention Deficit (Hyperactivity) Disorder.

Think of it like having a preemptive multitasking scheduler that is unable to keep track of the state of the previous task.

Re: You are what you read, even if you don't always remember it

#453

Post by piloto_ciego »

huygens6363 wrote: post #99
piloto_ciego wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can’t choose what you will think about? How do you get through the day? Are you just frequently blindsided by random non-sequiturs that derail you for hours? I routinely chose things to think about or things to concentrate on. It’s not like all thoughts leap into my mind fully formed either. Hell, I edited this message before hitting reply.

And what process do you propose decided to think “I chose my thoughts and what to concentrate on”? Surely you must see this is problems all the way down.

Simply think about what you want to concentrate on, then concentrate on that until you get tired or physically can’t concentrate on it any more?

I would be shocked if I was the only one on HN who ever thought, “I don’t want to think about this right now, I want to think about ” and then stopped thinking about the first thing. In aviation there’s even actually training on division of attention and learning to prioritize and concentrate selectively. You evaluate the situation and classify things as “important” or “not important” then focus in the important stuff. Literally choosing what to think about in the moment.

You’ve never said “gotta concentrate on this now,” and then concentrated on it very hard? Everyone on here is going overly reductive and going into infinite regress as though that proves their point, but it’s Sorites Paradox. “Oh where did the decision about its importance come from? Well that’s entirely the product of your environment! Checkmate free will!” But it’s a lot simpler than that, in the heat of the moment if you don’t have time you tend to fall back to your training, but in other decisions - even when making a choice about what to think about - you can even hold a bit of a discussion with yourself, or lay out the pros and cons to decide what to do, evaluate them all and then choose.

You can absolutely choose to think about one thing or think about another. That’s its own sort of free will. As I read a lot of these comments I really pity the people who don’t believe they’re imbued with free will. It really makes me wonder about their lives and upbringing.

Re: You are what you read, even if you don't always remember it

#454

Post by piloto_ciego »

mchaver wrote: post #252
piloto_ciego wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Choose to stop then? I mean social media that is - but seriously. Choose to say, “I’m not driven by my pleasure sensors” and do something hard for the sake of doing it - not for glory, not for nothing. Nihilism and predestination lead to some orettt dark places. Sometimes I feel like a lot of the folks I hear advocating against free will (which is really a stance against choice and even our own consciousness at its c…

I think another part is that materialism, determinism and science have (seemingly) given us great understanding and control of our environment and overturned lots of superstitious and erroneous ideas that society has. So if you accept materialism and determinism as the base of the universe and nature of things you naturally arrive at the conclusion that there is no free will. I have a hunch that the universe is more…

I agree at the universe being much more complex than we comprehend.

Re: You are what you read, even if you don't always remember it

#455

Post by piloto_ciego »

LocalH wrote: post #452
piloto_ciego wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can’t choose what you will think about? How do you get through the day? Are you just frequently blindsided by random non-sequiturs that derail you for hours? I routinely chose things to think about or things to concentrate on. It’s not like all thoughts leap into my mind fully formed either. Hell, I edited this message before hitting reply.

Let me introduce you to a little dopamine imbalance I like to call "focus control disorder", better known as Attention Deficit (Hyperactivity) Disorder. Think of it like having a preemptive multitasking scheduler that is unable to keep track of the state of the previous task.

Then I wonder if many of the most vociferous opponents of free will in these comments are suffering from that.

I also wonder if this sort of “free will is not real” sort of mindset comes from a world that’s removed all agency from them?

Re: You are what you read, even if you don't always remember it

#456

Post by diedyesterday »

tyler33 wrote: post #240
y04nn wrote: post #25

Don't forget that you are the result of all the past sensory interactions that you experienced in your whole life, people you interacted with, books you read, advertisements, songs, news headlines, etc. Even if you think you don't remember them, at one point in your life it was processed by your brain and may have changed some posterior decisions you made, thus making you what you are now. Since I realized this, I am…

just like an artificial neural network in training mode :/

Exactly. That's what I also thought the last time someone brought this up in these forums (couple of years ago). It's a hint to the structure of the brain and also the mind (we can observe it at the consciousness level in ourselves and others, too). Algorithmic (von Neumann) computers/programs do not usually exhibit this; but neural networks do.

If we are good readers, a book helps up achieve better generalization (in the machine learning sense). That's its main contribution not the specific facts it contained.

Re: You are what you read, even if you don't always remember it

#457

Post by strogonoff »

namero999 wrote: post #284
strogonoff wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you believe in determinism, then it is likely you also believe in physicalist monism (“there is only the matter and consciousness arises/derives fully from it or is an illusion”). Normally there is not much I can say to change your mind on that, but just note—there are other views, like idealistic monism, which unlock other possibilities wrt. free will, and which cannot be disproven or proven compared to physicali…

I'll just echo this, in that monistic idealism (especially, as a personal preference, in the declination of analytical idealism) is a worldview able to supersede the incongruous, untenable and for the most part, epistemically moot physicalism/materialism, which is sadly still considered the default mainstream worldview. As parent said, many open questions and interpretations become relatively trivial under idealism,…

Could you name-drop any analytic idealists? What would be in your opinion a good starting point?

Re: You are what you read, even if you don't always remember it

#458

Post by mysecretaccount »

card_zero wrote: post #442
mysecretaccount wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you framing this in terms of placating my paranoia? I have no objection to my lack of free will, it does not bother me. It makes me more empathetic to recognize that others lack it as well.

So, let me get this straight: You think metaphysical libertarianism is meaningful ("meaningful free will"), You also think it's false (why, if it's meaningful?), You aren't bothered by this, And something vague about empathy. Is that like "it's not your fault, you had no free will"? So about blame? But the function of blame is to manipulate people's choices, and that works even when we acknowledge that the choices re…

> You think metaphysical libertarianism is meaningful ("meaningful free will"),

> You also think it's false (why, if it's meaningful?),

Why would we expect any coherent phrase like "metaphysical libertarianism" to be true simply because it contains meaning?

Re: You are what you read, even if you don't always remember it

#459

Post by EricMausler »

gmassman wrote: post #347
EricMausler wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think everything is ultimately net positive if you strengthen and condition the way you internalize all the sensory exposure. To me, the risks are being overwhelmed by internalizing too much at once, and the opportunity cost of having a limited amount of time to take things in to your senses. Influence is a very nuanced thing so I don't want to sound too black and white here, but I think it's like a brainstorm sess…

That’s a nice sentiment, but I don’t think it can reasonably be applied to most people. Consider the kids brought up around gang culture and taught to sling dope in middle school. Is that experience a net positive for them?

Yes, it can be net positive. Ill clarify a bit, because text is easily misunderstood. I would not assume someone is a "bad" person just because they grew up around gang culture and drugs. I am talking "positive" in terms of understanding the world and determining the type of person you are proud of being. I'm not saying everything is enjoyable. I think our brains are capable of recognizing good things regardless of how much bad exposure we've had. That's more what I mean by net positive, not that everything we do is net pleasant

Re: You are what you read, even if you don't always remember it

#460

Post by purple-leafy »

inatreecrown2 wrote: post #130
purple-leafy wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just get rid of social media? That’s what I did. Well, I have a hackernews account but that’s it

do you watch YouTube videos?

Increasingly less. I’m giving away my tv tomorrow lol. I realise YouTube is just as bad with its influencers
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