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Boeing whistleblower found dead in US

bbc.com

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Re: Boeing whistleblower found dead in US

#451

Post by ryandrake »

mcv wrote: post #440
hiatus wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Democracy tends towards the former, but capitalism tends towards the latter. How did you arrive at this conclusion? The earliest versions of democracy used sortition for selection and thus couldn't account for doing the right thing. And of course we all know about the "tyranny of the majority" so I wonder why you believe democracy is somehow biased to selecting "people who care about doing the right thing".

Democracy represents the will of the people, who, in general tend to care about morality and doing the right thing (although of course they can be misled and manipulated). Capitalism tends towards maximising profit, which often comes at the cost of doing the right thing. > I wonder why you believe democracy is somehow biased to selecting "people who care about doing the right thing". Because people are. Why would som…

> Democracy represents the will of the people, who, in general tend to care about morality and doing the right thing

This isn't a given. History has lots of examples where a majority of people do not care about morality or doing the right thing, and in fact use their voting power to elect similar-minded leaders. Your post even contains a perfect example, but he is not an outlier.

Re: Boeing whistleblower found dead in US

#452

Post by PH95VuimJjqBqy »

dang wrote: post #167
anigbrowl wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flatly untrue. It's a soberly worded recitation of the available facts with multiple caveas; the frenzy of speculation stems from Boeing's increasingly tattered corporate reputation, not the story. This was written to far higher standards than (for example) a story from the Daily Mail or New York Post; I'm astonished that you would characterize this way.

Sorry—I'm tired and expressed that carelessly, and you're quite right. I wasn't talking about the article and am glad that it is as good as you say. In fact I merged the other thread into this one precisely because the BBC article was better. What I mean is that the story itself, i.e. the significant new information, is a lurid apparent suicide, and there aren't any details about that , other than it happened. Not be…

alleged is too strong. There's speculation which seems reasonable given the circumstances.

Re: Boeing whistleblower found dead in US

#453

Post by synecdoche »

mcv wrote: post #293
rockbruno wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humanity has had people who did not care about doing the right thing since forever, and still we thrived. As long as someone is doing the right thing, we're on the right track. Relevant video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mScpHTIi-kM

It helps to give power to people who care about doing the right thing, instead of to people who don't care. Democracy tends towards the former, but capitalism tends towards the latter.

I suspect a false dichotomy. What is a concrete example of something undemocratic about capitalism?

Re: Boeing whistleblower found dead in US

#454

Post by baja_blast »

taf2 wrote: post #365
rmbyrro wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there's an infinite number of alternate explanations I see only one reasonably acceptable alternate explanation. He either committed suicide or was suicided by someone at Boeing terrified about what would happen to them in jail.

Or killed by a nation state that thrives on creating conflict by amplifying two sided situations that lead to increased polarization and more instability… the problem with speculation is it’s just that speculation… I’m going to wait and see

Ah yes, a rival nation would want a whistleblower that brings bad press on their rival to be silenced right before further hearings. Funny how that works out in Boeing's favor more than anyone else.

Re: Boeing whistleblower found dead in US

#455

Post by salawat »

hef19898 wrote: post #402
polygamous_bat wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here’s a question for you: why do we punish people who have already committed a crime? As a deterrence. This may as well be making an example of a whistleblower to signal potential future whistleblowers to stay silent.

That's the whole point. And the reason why retaliation against whistleblowers ia mostly illegal. Proving reprisal actions can be so difficult so that it amounts to retribution itself. All the reason more to honor those few brave souls who do it, I know I propably wouldn't. And claiming this particular one was killed is absolutely not doing that .

>All the reason more to honor those few brave souls who do it, I know I propably wouldn't. And claiming this particular one was killed is absolutely not doing that.

What greater honor than to have Justice ultimately done, and the Truth be set free? My wager: Boeing council did everything they could to try to turn things around on him, and the poor bastard in that moment, exhausted, at mental wits end, believed them. My guess is the answer will be in the transcripts as long as Boeing doesn't get them redacted/sealed.

As long as our court system is tilted in the direction of those that can afford to more effectively fund gaslighting the populace, we'll continue to see tragedies like this.

Re: Boeing whistleblower found dead in US

#456

Post by browningstreet »

rmbyrro wrote: post #409
taf2 wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or killed by a nation state that thrives on creating conflict by amplifying two sided situations that lead to increased polarization and more instability… the problem with speculation is it’s just that speculation… I’m going to wait and see

How would a nation state "thrive" on assassinating this person? May I ask if you live in the U.S.? I have the impression that a lot of people there think that other nations revolve around destroying the U.S.

There are a lot of reports of Putin actively interfering to destabilize the west, and also reports in places like the NYTs about the US expanding bases in Ukraine to provoke Russia into the war. These aren’t Twitter rants, they’re in our mainstream “big” media outlets.

Re: Boeing whistleblower found dead in US

#457

Post by vinay_ys »

Why does a whistleblower need to be identified? Why can't it be an anonymous tip to the regulator, who then uses the tip during audits to dig deeper and get to the truth? If they can't get to the truth even after being provided a tip, then their audit process is too broken? This whole business of non-anonymous whistleblower has too much power-imbalance and always seems to end badly for the individual.

Re: Boeing whistleblower found dead in US

#458

Post by rootusrootus »

briantakita wrote: post #291
KingOfCoders wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I hate to say this." Then don't say it.

> Then don't say it. Some things need to be said. Some people need to do a better job. I hate saying it because I want America & it's founding principles to succeed. Boeing's performance & response to accountability is bad. China's methods are effective at stopping corruption dead. Their managerial class seems to understand the stakes of public safety. They don't mess around. They had to deal with corruption & it's d…

> China's methods are effective at stopping corruption dead.

Forcibly silencing anyone who tries to talk about it?

Re: Boeing whistleblower found dead in US

#459

Post by ratg13 »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #66
yifanl wrote: post #61

I'm just going to take this story at face value, there's an infinite number of alternate explanations that I'd be powerless to talk about. I've had my own (thankfully brief) moments where I've thought about suicide just from the perception that my coworkers, my bosses, the entire world, just does not care about doing the right thing. Mr Barnett worked for the same company for over three decades and physically watched…

And he not only watched the company fail spectacularly, in several of those cases those failures were connected to deaths, which I imagine he could feel personally responsible for not preventing, even if the corporate machine is really where the responsibility lies.

So the guy goes on for years being an outspoken whistleblower telling his story to anyone that would listen, and decides while in his hotel waiting for his deposition that now would be the best time to end it and not move forward with holding Boeing accountable.

Occam's razor isn't pointed in the direction you think it is.

Re: Boeing whistleblower found dead in US

#460

Post by fullshark »

blast wrote: post #188

The timing is suspicious but that doesn't mean it wasn't suicide. If he was determined to kill himself there might be several reasons to do it today. Maybe he wanted to cast suspicion on Boeing. Or maybe he didn't want to testify - could be tons of reasons for that. I have no idea. Just saying the two events could be connected without it being murder.

> Maybe he wanted to cast suspicion on Boeing.

Ridiculous. Although I agree there's more than one possible, highly disturbing explanation for this.

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