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Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

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Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#451

Post by kelnos »

atomicnumber3 wrote: post #99
bongodongobob wrote: post #75

You're baffled people aren't having kids? What bubble do you live in? People straight up can't afford housing much less children. The avg American is completely priced out of owning a home right now. Edit: the replies - y'all are out of touch. Visit an average family in the Midwest with a household income of < $100k/yr that doesn't own a home yet.

I'm baffled my peers , who absolutely could afford to, still have no interest. These are people making 150-200k (and at my prior job, 200-400k).

I could absolutely afford to have children, but have chosen not to. The main reason is that I just don't feel "called" to be a parent. When I think about (and see, from others I know who have kids) the amount of work, and complete shift in lifestyle, it takes to raise a child, I get completely turned off by the idea.

If I had a kid, I'm sure I'd love them, and derive joy from them, but I don't believe the trade off is worth it. Maybe I'll end up being wrong about that, but I'd rather grow old and regret not having kids than regret having them. I think people shouldn't have kids unless they are really sure they want to be a parent. Anything less sounds like a big mistake.

Anyhow, have you actually talked to your childless peers about this? Hopefully there are at least some with whom you feel comfortable bringing up this kind of topic, with people who will give you a thoughtful, non-judgmental answer. I think you might find that they all have a variety of reasons for not having kids, and money may not be a big factor.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#452

Post by pzo »

ardaoweo wrote: post #334

Here in Finland apparently 50% of 35yo males, and 35% of 35yo females have no children. Fertility rate in 2023 was 1.26. In comparison, 2015 saw fertility rate of 1.65, and it has been below replacement level since 1969. 61% of under 40yo people live in rental apartments, this share having risen about 10% from 2010. Also, apartments built today are about 9 square meters smaller on average compares to 10 years ago. I…

I'm just always wondering why the ratio is not more close 50% / 50% between males and woman?

On birth male/female ratio is pretty much 50/50. So at any stage (except older >70 because woman usually lives longer) ratio should be similar. LGBT are just 10% of population and distribution between gays/lesbians seems also 50/50.

Based on that if there is a single male there is another single female somewhere. The only reason that comes to my mind that more female migrated from Finland somewhere else or there is a big immigration of males into Finland.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#453

Post by pjc50 »

remarkEon wrote: post #265
voidfunc wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just don't have any interest in kids. They're expensive and they require a ton of sacrifice. I'd rather travel, golf, do hobbies and generally enjoy my life. The only people that seem to want me to have babies are my parents so they can have grand kids... too which I've told them "Thank you for having me, but that's not a valid reason for me to sacrifice my life". I don't really care about the preservation of the h…

Whenever I encounter this attitude I like to remind that person that they should have no voice, whatsoever, in what happens in government and politics anymore. I don't want people who are self-selecting themselves out of the future having any say in what happens for my children. It's fine that you don't want kids, enjoy the golf course I guess. But in general I will discount your opinions to zero on anything else of…

People in this thread like you should have to declare how many kids they actually have.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#454

Post by 627467 »

drawfloat wrote: post #447
khazhoux wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It really bothers me when people say "oh you're missing out, that's such a shame" Do you have any friends or relatives who refuse to try ramen or pho, no matter how many times you tell them that it's the best food ever, and that you also thought it seemed weird to put steak in a broth with noodles until you finally gave it a try and then you couldn't believe how delicious it was and you wish you'd tried it years ea…

You're not responsible for a bowl of noodles for the rest of your life.

Actually: wouldn't it be great if most people thought we actually have a level of responsibility for other for the rest of our lives?

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#455

Post by ardaoweo »

jonasdegendt wrote: post #425
ardaoweo wrote: post #334

Here in Finland apparently 50% of 35yo males, and 35% of 35yo females have no children. Fertility rate in 2023 was 1.26. In comparison, 2015 saw fertility rate of 1.65, and it has been below replacement level since 1969. 61% of under 40yo people live in rental apartments, this share having risen about 10% from 2010. Also, apartments built today are about 9 square meters smaller on average compares to 10 years ago. I…

3 bedrooms plus a bath on 55 sq/m sounds pretty tightly packed huh, mind sharing a listing? I’m quite curious as to the layout. I’m in Belgium where we’ve historically built larger than necessary apartments (and houses) so there’s a decent amount of housing stock to raise a family in, but the tides have turned and new apartments are also mostly smaller 1 and 2 bedrooms targeting singles. The latter sucks because if y…

Actually I meant a three room apartment (three rooms + bathroom), so I guess that's really a two bedroom apartment using US definition. Anyway, here's an example of a three room apartment packed into 41.5 square meters excluding balcony.

https://www.etuovi.com/kohde/38837797?haku=M2075336606

Another typical example with 4 rooms + bathroom packed into 65.5 squares:

https://www.etuovi.com/kohde/u24978?haku=M2075340353

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#456

Post by [deleted] »

lolinder wrote: post #237
hmcq6 wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're misconstruing what census.gov says. If you look into the "definitions" section it defines "Housing Unit. A housing unit is a house, an apartment, a group of rooms, or a single room occupied or intended for occupancy as separate living quarters." and "Householder. The householder refers to the person (or one of the persons) in whose name the housing unit is owned or rented [...]" 49% of people aged 30-34 aren't…

No, I'm not. I'm citing the numbers in the table entitled "Quarterly Homeownership Rates for the U.S. and Regions: 1964 to Present"* (emphasis added). That table is talking about homeownership rates, not householdership rates, and the definition they give is this: > Homeownership Rates. The proportion of households that are owners is termed the homeownership rate. It is computed by dividing the number of households t…

[deleted]

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#457

Post by Biologist123 »

defrost wrote: post #362
Biologist123 wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if Rosling’s conclusions are confounded. The human and environmental systems in which we swim are complex, not simple. Education being the key driver of population numbers strikes me as overly simple.

It's more likely you're imagining an over simplified version of Rosling's "conclusions". He has presented hours of thoughts on data spanning multiple decades from countries across the globe and comments identified correlations. Education being highly correlated with reduced population growth is a data confirmed observation, and not a declaration of prime causation.

That would seem a fair insight.

But then wonders what the drivers are.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#458

Post by OtomotO »

jmopp wrote: post #249
dotnet00 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you're poorer, especially in countries with less well enforced legal systems, you're not as negatively affected by having more children. Your priority is simply being able to stay fed and taking what work you can get, not buying a home in an area conducive to your highly specialized career. More kids are just another mouth to feed until they become capable of contributing to the family finances (typically at muc…

This. In poorer parts of the world, you might have an extra mouth to feed for the first 15-20 years, but once your child finishes school and finds work they're contributing to your well-being and to helping feed the younger children. You also need not worry too much about your retirement, because you know your family will support you, and you'll play a role raising your grandchildren and great grandchildren.

> you might have an extra mouth to feed for the first 15-20 years

more like 5-10 years

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#459

Post by harperlee »

shepherdjerred wrote: post #359
dotnet00 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would only make sense if the issue was biological and not socioeconomic. No one's getting selected out when the issue isn't a biological predisposition to avoiding procreation.

That's too narrow a view of evolution. A better way to frame it is: which group is more likely to propagate their genes and have more ancestors 100/1,000/10,000 years in the future? Is it the group that can afford to have more children and successfully raise them, or the group that can't afford large families? It doesn't matter if the cause is biological or socioeconomic. Just because humans have science, medicine, e…

I'd add, propagate their /memes/, which originally meant the ideas (and values) that get transmitted through personal connections (not necessarily in gif format). The primal way you get your education, religion, values, etc. is through your parents.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#460

Post by swells34 »

echelon wrote: post #187
zigman1 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know what is also anti-child? Having parents that were completely unprepared to be parents. Stop with this dopamine epidemic nonsense excuse for everything that isn't working the way you want

[flagged]

Ah yes, what I said was toxic because I would have to thank a lot of things for any success I had. Frankly, above a certain amount of income, no one has earned it. That's not toxic, it's just fact. You are welcome, my tax dollars have allowed you to become rich. I'm very glad you were as fortunate as you were, just remember to give back to the society which enabled your wealth!
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