Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Is my plane a 737 MAX?

ismyplanea737max.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

451–460 of 579 posts

Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?

#451

Post by daedalus_j »

ibejoeb wrote: post #268
daedalus_j wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a big difference between an unsafe airframe and pilot error/poor-training though. For example the recent crash in Japan. Airbus isn't getting railed for that one. I know several 737 pilots on US flag carriers. Even at the time they were saying that neither crash would be possible for their fleet as they had done simulator training of exactly those sorts of scenarios. From wikipedia: While defending the pilots…

The was no pilot error or equipment malfunction in that incident. (I suppose you could look at the pilot of the dash 8 and wonder why he didn't hold short, but he could have been driving a golf cart and still made an runway incursion.) It didn't even happen in the air. Boeing was rightly blamed for misleading everyone about the nature of the MAX8. It is a materially different airframe, and it required different syste…

> Boeing was rightly blamed for misleading everyone about the nature of the MAX8

Pilots I am personally friends with who fly for American, Southwest, and United, disagree. They feel they were fully prepped for the differences in the airframe from their first flight on it, pre-crashes, and have said that they blame the carriers that crashed for not prepping their pilots the same.

It's entirely possible that I missed some news, but I'm unfamiliar with the FAA or anyone else actually accusing Boeing of intentionally misleading or releasing incorrect information?

My analogy to to Japan, while poor, was just meant to illustrate that we should be very clear about the true causes of things. "Boeing lied" is a very different problem than "Boeing squeezed a new system in, advised that pilots should be trained, and airlines didn't perform enough training".

But yes, I agree that we should be wondering what's up, specifically with Boeing's assembly/QA processes...

Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?

#452

Post by JumpCrisscross »

banku_brougham wrote: post #450

I think the market is beginning to explore the in-situ tolerance of consumers for fatal crashes, and weighing those marginal losses against realised cost savings.

> the market is beginning to explore the in-situ tolerance of consumers for fatal crashes, and weighing those marginal losses against realised cost savings

Which market? Airlines aren't noticing this beyond a surge in customer-service and lost-booking costs. The financial markets are weighing penalties and settlements for the cost of grounded aircraft. The enforcement and incentive modifications around this will come almost entirely from the public sector and litigation, not consumers.

Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?

#453

Post by flerchin »

danielmarkbruce wrote: post #275
flerchin wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This site went up in response to zero people dying.

A door came flying off at 16k feet. They found a bunch of planes with loose bolts. On a plane with a history of problems built by a company with a history of problems. No one died this time. But hundreds died last time. Nothing will stop Boeing except money. People not wanting to fly this plane will change airlines purchasing decisions. Boeing will feel the pain.

What has you focusing on this aircraft over, eg, the Airbus A330, which has killed a similar number of people?

Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?

#454

Post by pc86 »

mrWiz wrote: post #446
Consultant32452 wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Per mile traveled but not per trip.

I'm not sure how that applies here - the trip home from a travel destination will be a similar distance whether driven or flown.

It doesn't, it's part of the mental gymnastics people are going to through to try to argue that commercial aviation is more dangerous than it is.

Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?

#456

Post by FredPret »

kube-system wrote: post #319
nolok wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But virtually no one really is avoiding it over that, they're avoiding because of the multitude of various faults and issue over the entire MAX line that makes it highly unlikely that there isn't something else coming.

This submission isn't on the front page because of incidents 4-5 years ago. It is on the front page because of the news this week.

This week's problem is merely the latest dot on a terrifying trend line.

It's the line that's making the news, and this dot forms that line.

Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?

#457

Post by cameldrv »

pirate787 wrote: post #427
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #301

If you are outraged and want to be more than performative about it, check if your electeds are on the Senate Aviation Safety, Operations, and Innovation [1] and/or House Aviation Subcommittees [2]. If not, the broader Senate Commerce, Science and Transportation [3] and/or House Transportation & Infrastructure Committees [4]. Call their office (D.C., preferably) or submit a comment noting the issue and your concerns a…

Also I'd contact your favorite airlines and demand that they retire their MAX planes. https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/airline-consumer-...

The 737MAX is not going away. There are about 1400 of them flying and another 6000 orders. Boeing obviously has some serious quality problems that need to get fixed, but since the grounding in 2019, the MAX has done something like 1.5 million flights with no fatalities. This is worth fixing, but it's not dangerous enough to change your travel plans. You're way more likely to die from COVID you caught on the plane than because the plane was unsafe.

Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?

#458

Post by miketery »

spacemark wrote: post #374
miketery wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spoke to someone who works there about a year ago. I was trying to gauge how an insider viewed the Max problem related to the auto trim issue which caused two airplanes [1][2] to crash, killing 346 people. This was shortly after watching the documentary Downfall: The Case Against Boeing [3]. The ignorance and non acceptance of fault made me cringe. I won't go into the details, but this wasn't a freak accident this…

All valid points, but I wonder if you've overshot your response to this (very slight) increase of risk to your personal safety. The statistical safety of aviation is the best it has ever been - 2023 set yet another record low for commercial aviation deaths and injuries. Your automobile trip to the grocery store is far riskier.

I think the critical thing to think about is the derivative of risk. How is risk changing over time.

We are in a trend where risk is increasing.

Boeing is a major institution responsible for building critical defense and civil technology. With many jobs on the line as well.

People need to be held accountable, and we need a culture that allows people to speak up earlier and more often. Otherwise this will continue to happen and not just at Boeing but across many more critical sectors of our society.

Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?

#459

Post by hentrep »

I booked a flight on United yesterday, well after this latest Boeing incident. After looking more carefully, they have me on a 737 MAX 9. I haven’t kept up with the latest, but I thought all of these planes were grounded. Am I missing something, or am I just setting myself up for a canceled flight next week?
Post reply on HN