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The pro-Israel information war

jackpoulson.substack.com

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Re: The pro-Israel information war

#451

Post by bjourne »

yyyk wrote: post #344
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right now, there is nowhere else in the world where so many civilians are being killed. Nothing else even comes close. 20k deaths in just two months is a massive death toll for such a short conflict. For comparison, it's more than the civilian death toll in the nearly 2-year-old war in Ukraine. The other thing is that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has been going on for decades, and many people have formed strong o…

That's just untrue. Sudan, Yemen and (earlier) Ethiopia had much much more, without even going into Ukraine (nobody should accept the Russian figures) or Syria (death toll exceeding all Israeli-Arab wars combined). Doing a death toll per month analysis is misleading because high intensity can't last very long due to geography alone.

No, it's true. Roughly 1% of Gaza's pre-war population has already been killed by Israel. 81% has been displaced and over 60% of all buildings have been damaged or destroyed. The amount of destruction Russia was brought upon Ukraine doesn't even come close.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#455

Post by jhallenworld »

I've been watching Project Ask recently:

https://www.youtube.com/@CoreyGilShusterAskProject/videos

It's fascinating to hear opinions on the ground from both sides. Some things I've learned or concluded:

Young Palestinians are much more radical than older ones, who seem more flexible.

I personally think the two-state solution is a non-starter, and watched these videos to see if a one state solution is at all viable (meaning make Palestinians into Israeli citizens with full rights- basically the Zionists conquered the land, but they must also take the people). The problem is that neither side wants this.

Many Jewish Israelis think the Arabs would outnumber them due to birth rate, but recently Ultra-Orthodox Jews have an even higher birth rate, and Palestinian birth rate has fallen (I speculate due to increased education). Extremist settlers absolutely won't have it, and there is rampant racism. Palestinians want the Jews gone from their lands, but when pressed would probably accept those of Palestinian descent.

Sadly, I think we are going to continue with the one state with Apartheid. And, an interesting thing has happened in post-Apartheid South Africa: the realization that they are collectively poor, and not a rich first world country. One example from SA is that the electrical infrastructure was sized for only the whites, now that the full population is counted, there is just not enough, it's a big current problem. Any per-capita measurement of Israel should include the Palestinians to see the depth of this problem.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#456

Post by fny »

jenadine wrote: post #182
KittenInABox wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to believe that Hamas is hiding among civilians, but there has already been reported major violations where there cannot be any military benefit for Israel about this. A hospital with a children's ward was labeled to be a command center for Hamas, but when the BBC came to examine the command center, they not only found nothing to indicate a major military use but also had video evidence (from previous video ta…

Are you talking about the hospital that was actually destroyed accidentally by the Hamas and the Hamas blamed it on Israel? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Ahli_Arab_Hospital_explosio...

No he’s talking about Shifa hospital where the IDF later showed an underground bunker: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-army-displ...

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#457

Post by smoldesu »

fxd123 wrote: post #243
pazimzadeh wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

he tweeted a while back the number of palestinian vs israeli children who have died since october 7 there were way more palestinian children who had died, and some didn't like that being broadcast

It's almost as if Israel has defensive technology (Iron Dome) to protect their citizens from Palestine's rocket attacks that target civilian areas (which is a war crime)

People aren't asking for a reciprocal death count from Israel, they want them to resist escalation.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#458

Post by ssnistfajen »

istultus wrote: post #423

What an absolute mind-fuck. I think the greatest thing the Moscow-Teheran-Beijing "bot army diplomacy doctrine" is showing us is that you can radicalize both the US right AND the US Left at the same time by speaking to each side's idiocies at full throat. We are nearing Elders of Zion territory here where the ratio of 2 Billion Muslims to 15 Million Jews, and thus the constant stream of anti-Israeli propaganda, now c…

What discourse you see online is entirely dependent on who you follow. TikTok is not force feeding you pro-Palestine content (and pro-Palestine ≠ pro-Hamas, people who are unironically pro-Hamas are not to be taken seriously since they usually come with other nonsensical takes on everything). Neither is Twitter, Youtube, Instagram, or any other platform where content is recommended based on user preferences. Don't like what you see? Close it or use whatever feedback function built-in to strongly signal your distaste, and the algorithms will recommend less of that. My tech twitter timeline was unusable for weeks after October 7 because many people I follow started posting pro-Israel messages nonstop, to the point where I had to mute them because it's not what I followed them for despite having sympathy for Israelis after the attack from Hamas.

I started getting ads obviously funded by the State of Israel and pro-Israel organizations on Youtube, on Twitter, on Instagram, and on TikTok (for a day or two). There were "Missing Person" posters of October 7th victims in my neighbourhood street which is located more than 10000+km from Israel (I feel bad for them and hope they will return home safe and sound, but what are these posters trying to achieve here in my neighbourhood? My local representative legislator is already supporting Israel and condemning Hamas). I'm not going to stop recognizing propaganda for being propaganda even if I mostly agree with its underlying message. That's a basic critical thinking skill and evidently that skill is lacking even mong highly successful and "intelligent" people on HN, tech Twitter, and so on.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#459

Post by hackyhacky »

simonh wrote: post #117
KittenInABox wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think they are saying that the composition of users of these apps skews one way rather than the other due to pre existing stances I think the notion that the vast chunk of Twitter or TikTok had a pre existing stance on Israel/Palestine before Oct 7 is kind of silly, imo? Before this I could scroll Twitter without seeing anything about Israel or Palestine for... idk. Weeks, months at a time. I'll maybe see one thi…

As OP pointed out, a billion Muslims is a lot of people. They may not have the palestinians at top of mind all the time, but a lot of them do at the moment.

[flagged]

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#460

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

edanm wrote: post #347
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their response should be to leave the occupied territories, which aren't theirs to begin with, and to recognize a Palestinian state. Israel has held millions of Palestinians under military occupation for more than half a century, and it's way past time that that ended.

Israel did leave Gaza though. Gaza elected Hamas, and they carried out this attack. So what should Israel do specifically in Gaza?

Israel left Gaza and then blockaded it, and has carried out major bombing campaigns against Gaza and ground invasions several times.

The conflict is not limited to Gaza. In the West Bank and East Jerusalem, Israel continues to build its illegal settlements, to subject the Palestinian population to a humiliating and brutal military occupation, and to kill Palestinians regularly (several hundred in the West Bank this year).

Until Israel leaves the occupied territories and allows the Palestinians to live as normal people, there will be Palestinian resistance. A few years ago, the people of Gaza tried nonviolent resistance, protesting at the border fence. Israel responded with live ammunition, killing hundreds of protestors.

The Palestinians have tried every way to obtain their freedom: protest, negotiation, armed resistance. Nothing works. Israel is, by far, the stronger party, and it does what it wants to the Palestinians with no consequences.

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