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Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

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Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#451
post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i think the argument the parent is making is songtradr didn't fire anyone the only hired who they preferred.

Does a judge want to set the precedent that union busting is legal when you do it with extra steps? 1) Fire everybody 2) Create new corporate entity 3) Rehire the meek and compliant 4) Sell corporate entity back to original company Judges tend to get very cranky when they have to deal with shenanigans like these.

[deleted]

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if this is factored into your unemployment numbers, but in the USA its very common for all adults to need to work in order to make ends meet. Whereas in a stronger economy with employment laws protecting employees it'd be much more possible for a family to live comfortably off a single income, making for a lot more "unemployed" adults.

>> live comfortably off a single income, making for a lot more "unemployed" adults. Unemployment stats explicitly only count those looking for work, so this actually misrepresents the other way; it doesn't include those people who have given up but given a choice would be working.

I know that is how it is defined in the US. Does the same apply for Germany?

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#453
post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if this is factored into your unemployment numbers, but in the USA its very common for all adults to need to work in order to make ends meet. Whereas in a stronger economy with employment laws protecting employees it'd be much more possible for a family to live comfortably off a single income, making for a lot more "unemployed" adults.

Odd then that the USA has a much lower labor force participation rate than Germany.

Because Germany has "make-work" policies; if you want a job, you can get one repaving roads, cleaning up trash, or otherwise maintaining public infrastructure. My American uncle sneered at this "work for the boys" attitude, but as a lifelong US resident, I can't help but envy that solution.

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> live comfortably off a single income, making for a lot more "unemployed" adults. Unemployment stats explicitly only count those looking for work, so this actually misrepresents the other way; it doesn't include those people who have given up but given a choice would be working.

I don't think it's that clear cut. Another interpretation is that someone could afford to be "looking for work" for longer while supported by their partner's income. People would be able to afford to shop around for a better job, which would leave more people in the "looking for work" pool for when a good opportunity comes around. They would be less desperate to accept the first offer they get. We shouldn't rush to j…

I think the point the GP was trying to make was that when you see official unemployment numbers from the US government, those numbers are derived from the number of people actively seeking unemployment benefits (which includes job training, job placement, and payments). Those numbers don't include anyone who doesn't officially apply for benefits, which would naturally exclude all sorts of people who are not employed.

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is this "free market" you describe? Am I free to occupy any building I like, or does your "free" market include a concept of a "property" and entire government bureaucracies and men with guns to enforce such concepts? Does your "free market" make a distinction between "I expect this property to still be mine tomorrow" and "I expect this job to still be mine tomorrow"? Does you "free market" allow for individuals…

By definition unions have local monopolies and can't be attacked. In a well-run truly free economy, corporations don't have that. my view of the power distributions and their results * company town, one company enslaving all workers To your point about house ownership being protected by law, but job ownership not being, I think it's a matter of contracts. Selling someone and helping them own it forever is fairly triv…

> By definition unions have local monopolies and can't be attacked.

I’m not sure I understand what you mean by “local monopolies”, so this comment may be a bit off base: My Norwegian employer (<1000 employees) deals with four different unions and a bunch of un-unionized people. (All with no problem)

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Admission? Like the commenter is some kind of representative? And while unions aren't homogenous, they generally don't protect incompetence. I've known people in unions that got fired for poor performance, generally. But if I was a cook and cut off a finger while making some company profitable, my performance would certainly suffer while it was healing, and lots of companies world very much rather stop paying me. So…

I've known people who managed union employees. While being walked out (fired) for bad performance, they learned the magic words "I have a drug problem". Automatically reverses firing, employee goes to some (company paid rehab) for 1-3 months, gets their job back. They just use this as an option to keep their job, they dont even care. Every "compassionate" benefit you offer will be equally exploited by losers. It seem…

The exceptional number of people I've known in Unions for decades are mostly career professionals with good professional ethics. Your anecdata vs mine. I hear garbage like that from anti-union people but have never seen that in reality. Is it a union for bank robbers?

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you were really on the independent musicians side, the default should always be that they retain all rights to their own work. That is what was attractive about Bandcamp for musicians, they were merely a payment processor.

This is already the case (see the response above). Is there anything else in particular that you would find important to address?

It's not stated anywhere, either in the response above or on the website (that I can find).

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Admission? Like the commenter is some kind of representative? And while unions aren't homogenous, they generally don't protect incompetence. I've known people in unions that got fired for poor performance, generally. But if I was a cook and cut off a finger while making some company profitable, my performance would certainly suffer while it was healing, and lots of companies world very much rather stop paying me. So…

> And while unions aren't homogenous, they generally don't protect incompetence They tend to insist on due process for adverse actions, and management tend to hold out the idea that being able to dismiss arbitrarily without evidence or process is essential to efficiently dealing with incompetence.

Your assertion tends to rely on your anecdata which tends to not be any more useful than anybody else's. I've known a huge number of people in various unions and this simply does not reflect any reality I've experienced in 25 years of work experience.

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#459
post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are. What I was taught in macroeconomics in this topic (excuse me if I get something wrong, it’s been a few years) In general it’s very expected unemployment to „generally“ be higher in Germany. Because it’s harder to fire people here, people also get hired somewhat slower. However in the flip side it’s also expected that during harsh economic times people will be fired less because of how „hard“ it is to hire p…

Also there programs like „Kurzarbeit“ rough translation would be „Shortened Work“. Where you get 60%-85% of your salary (after tax) without work or with way less ours, if the employer has no work/less work (like covid period). It’s payed mostly by the state. Up to 12 month. Regulations are strict. Prevents layoffs and helps starting the upturn of production like automobile industry, where it takes months or half a ye…

Kurzarbeit is funded by unemployment insurance, which you pay when you have a job. It is correct though that during covid, the funds ran a bit empty and the government had to fill it up again with unrelated tax money (afaik)

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When in the world will this meme end. If I am paid to dig holes, then a hole is not worth anything to me except for what someone will pay for it. I'm not going to stay at home and dig all these holes in my back yard and glimmer with glee at all this surplus value that I've kept to myself. Code is the exact same. Me writing a python module to process a CSV file is not at all valuable to me, but the wage I'm paid for m…

It’s not a meme. You do something that is sold for X and you are paid X-Y. y is your surplus value. True you possibly couldn’t get that y on your own. But someone got it, and it wasn’t you.

> You do something that is sold for X and you are paid X-Y.

If my neighbor wants a new fence (the Y), offers me $50 to dig a hole (the X-Y) to put a fence pole in.

I dig a hole, i get $50. He gets closer to a fence. we have both profited, who is exploited?

Or if you want to go even more basic:

he wants a fence, he pays me $500 to build a fence, i build the fence and get $500. who is exploited?

Note these are real examples from real life that i deal with.

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