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Why scalpers can get tickets

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Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#451

Post by musicale »

Analemma_ wrote: post #245
emodendroket wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would just return them to the status quo ante where scalpers sell through third parties.

If you tied tickets to names and required ID at the venue (allowing refunds in case you couldn't make it), this wouldn't work and scalping would basically end overnight. The fact that neither Ticketmaster nor the performers nor the venues has ever taken this simple step is the proof that it's not in their interest to do so. Note that events where the promoters are actually interested in having people show up instead…

Doesn't PAX just the badges out? They are readily and frequently resold, online and at the venue.

More effective would be having to show your ID at the venue with no reentry.

"Scalpy McScalper. Looks good to me. Enjoy the show!"

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#452

Post by musicale »

matsemann wrote: post #351
sundvor wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup if you applied for a refund, your ticket(s) could go back in the pool for someone wanting to get one/some last minute. If it/they are picked up, you get your money back minus transaction fees and perhaps a small penalty, and if it doesn't, you don't - but at least you tried and someone else had a chance to get it. Ticketmaster obviously doesn't GAF / care. (The above was for a last few hours or days cancellation…

This is how Ticket master works in Norway, where it's illegal to sell above face value. Or, more specifically you set your own price with the max being what you bought it for.

I want Norway Ticketmaster.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#453

Post by musicale »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #286
Analemma_ wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you tied tickets to names and required ID at the venue (allowing refunds in case you couldn't make it), this wouldn't work and scalping would basically end overnight. The fact that neither Ticketmaster nor the performers nor the venues has ever taken this simple step is the proof that it's not in their interest to do so. Note that events where the promoters are actually interested in having people show up instead…

I agree, but Devil's advocate, consider 1) when buying for young kids. Minors don't always have ID and are rarely expected to have them in public. 2) when you buy for a group. You may not have everyone's ID on hand at once, and it makes it harder for honest friends to get tickets together. You don't need to sit together at PAX.

The way I've seen it done is:

- kids do not need ID because they usually don't have them

- every adult in the group needs to have their name registered at ticket purchase time

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#454

Post by musicale »

emodendroket wrote: post #246
Analemma_ wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you tied tickets to names and required ID at the venue (allowing refunds in case you couldn't make it), this wouldn't work and scalping would basically end overnight. The fact that neither Ticketmaster nor the performers nor the venues has ever taken this simple step is the proof that it's not in their interest to do so. Note that events where the promoters are actually interested in having people show up instead…

Or proof that getting in would take much longer if they did that. Anyway, there are legitimate reasons someone might want to resell, like no longer being free on the event date, so I’m not sure even legitimate buyers would prefer such a strict system.

I've been to a few events that required ID check for entry and it was pretty streamlined.

It seems to work OK as long as there is enough capacity to get everyone in quickly.

Refund with a small charge seems fine to me.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#455

Post by maven29 »

d1sxeyes wrote: post #417
maven29 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is stopping the existence of a refund mechanism there?

Then scalpers have zero risk if they overbuy, encouraging scalpers even more.

If you restrict refunds to be permissible only until a certain point before the event, that will create a window in which unsuccessfully scalped tickets are released back into the pool for general public, bypassing scalpers. If scalpers choose to hold onto the tickets beyond the point, they wouldn't really be able to liquidate. I'd say that we shouldn't let perfect be the enemy of good, with regards to refunds.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#456

Post by mattmaroon »

hnburnsy wrote: post #443
mattmaroon wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, their clients aren’t artists. They’re the venues or promoters who signed with them, and the promoter is usually LiveNation, who owns them. Sometimes the venue is too. That’s exactly what I said. They pay for exclusive ticket sales. They’re just defining “client” as who they pay and notice they do not say artist, which they surely would if they ever did.

Aren't sports teams 'artists'?

No, but they are often venue owners, as I mentioned. That’s why TM pays them.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#457

Post by soco »

lukeramsden wrote: post #411
TeMPOraL wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm honestly not sure anymore if scalping should be delegalized. I'm increasingly convinced that it's only the problem because everyone is in on it , with artists using scalpers as "heat sinks", to get more money while pretending they're the victim, and everyone is well compensated for the role they play in the scheme. If that's the case, then the entire structure is the problem, and it starts with artists exploiting…

I did some research in to this this year in the context of maybe trying to start a business to solve this - and this was the conclusion I came to. There’s lots of threads here on HN about it too. It’s a structural, market-wide issue where the primary service Ticketmaster provide is reputation laundering, and in return, large agents and promoters agree to continue to use Ticketmaster despite their reputation. I don’t…

Like, don't go to overpriced concerts? How much more obvious than this should the solution be? None in that chain create value, so no need for you to feed their greed.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#458

Post by esotericimpl »

lukeramsden wrote: post #411
TeMPOraL wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm honestly not sure anymore if scalping should be delegalized. I'm increasingly convinced that it's only the problem because everyone is in on it , with artists using scalpers as "heat sinks", to get more money while pretending they're the victim, and everyone is well compensated for the role they play in the scheme. If that's the case, then the entire structure is the problem, and it starts with artists exploiting…

I did some research in to this this year in the context of maybe trying to start a business to solve this - and this was the conclusion I came to. There’s lots of threads here on HN about it too. It’s a structural, market-wide issue where the primary service Ticketmaster provide is reputation laundering, and in return, large agents and promoters agree to continue to use Ticketmaster despite their reputation. I don’t…

[dead]

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#459

Post by chongli »

imtringued wrote: post #365
chongli wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For someone like Taylor Swift, the tickets would sell out at $2000 on day 1. Then what? Her fans burn down her private jet on the tarmac for being greedy. The entire reason performers want their tickets sold below market value is so that non-rich "real fans" can actually afford them. All of the other shenanigans going on are there to get around this issue (and the performers definitely get a cut) while protecting the…

This "love" is a lie. A "real fan" is one who wants to be skillfully lied to.

Or you could say a “real fan” is someone who never goes to concerts and only pirates music. Then they have no incentives either way and only listen to music they enjoy!

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#460

Post by firebat45 »

iambateman wrote: post #406
WhyNotHugo wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like theres a lot of missing legislation. The situation creates a huge conflict of interests. Then again, scalping itself out to be illegal; it’s just a form of exploiting someone else’s work to extract money from average folk without creating any value or meaningful work.

Scalping is exploitative and should be illegal when it’s for water and gasoline in a hurricane recovery zone. I’m unconvinced that there is a harm when the scalping is for section 102 row 14 seat 11 at a OneDirection concert. Lots of people want to vacation in Ibiza, so it’s expensive. Lots of people want to sit in section 102 row 14 seat 11, so it’s expensive too. Just because someone with more money buys the seat d…

Now explain how scalping basic necessities in a hurricane is any different than real estate speculation.

Either way, you're buying something people need, in an effort to restrict demand, raise prices, and resell at a profit without having to add any real value.

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