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Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

theatlantic.com

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Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#451

Post by bottled_poe »

brightlancer wrote: post #186

Rubbish. Folks made the exact same arguments about alcohol and marijuana. Specifically with alcohol, anyone can walk into a treatment center without fear that they'll be arrested for the mere _use_ of a substance. (Marijuana has very low risk and rates of addiction, physical or psychological.) If "hard" drugs are legalized, then they will likely be treated the same as alcohol and pot and tobacco: highly regulated, so…

The government must never, in good conscience, open up the use of extremely physically addictive substances. Decriminalisation for users, I can support, but legalising and selling is a terrible idea. Alcohol, tobacco and marijuana are not in the same league as heroin and other opiates. It’s extremely dangerous to equate all drugs in this debate.

Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#452

Post by fooker »

simonh wrote: post #446

What was done in Oregon, based on the successful policy in Portugal, was decriminalising use and possession of very small quantities. Distribution and sale are still just as illegal as before. Basically I think this is the right approach. Drug use at low levels in endemic. I don't think it makes sense for huge swathes of otherwise law abiding citizens to be technically criminals. It ends up with grossly distorted dem…

It is always easy to blame the execution rather than the policy, if you are ideologically biased to believe in the policy.

Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#453

Post by snypher »

samketchup wrote: post #328
toomim wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Driving drunk is illegal because you're likely to kill someone, and then it'll be too late to say "let's just prosecute the crime of manslaughter, and not prevent future manslaughters by prosecuting drunkenness in the car." In the same way, we should make it illegal to do drugs in situations where you are likely to cause irreparable harm. If we legalize drugs, let's create safe situations to do so. Many drugs are bei…

More people are killed on the road in accidents caused by elderly folks than drunk drivers. I know this sounds insane, but drunk driving should be no harm no foul.

Elderly folks should be taken off the road as well?

Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#454

Post by badlucklottery »

So Oregon started a two-pronged approach (reduced criminalization coupled with low-/no-cost treatment centers) and weren't able to actually get the treatment side of it working.

Statistically jail is a very bad drug treatment center. But it's likely better than no treatment at all.

Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#455

Post by fooker »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #442
FredPret wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s no safe way to consume a substance that rewires your lizard brain to seek more of it

Yet somehow most people are not alcoholics. So evidently it can be done.

As long as your current economic/geopolitical situation is favorable, sure.

Up to a third of the population of some of the east European countries are alcoholics.

I'm not saying bans are the solution, but ignoring problems just because you aren't affected isn't a great idea either.

Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#456

Post by actionfromafar »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #442
FredPret wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s no safe way to consume a substance that rewires your lizard brain to seek more of it

Yet somehow most people are not alcoholics. So evidently it can be done.

It can be done by a certain percentage of people.

Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#457

Post by lossolo »

simonh wrote: post #446

What was done in Oregon, based on the successful policy in Portugal, was decriminalising use and possession of very small quantities. Distribution and sale are still just as illegal as before. Basically I think this is the right approach. Drug use at low levels in endemic. I don't think it makes sense for huge swathes of otherwise law abiding citizens to be technically criminals. It ends up with grossly distorted dem…

> based on the successful policy in Portugal

There are doubts about success of that policy now. Article from a few weeks ago:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/07/07/portugal-dru...

Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#458

Post by j_walter »

runjake wrote: post #410
j_walter wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget that many of those people are fueling their drug habits with theft...theft that has gone largely unchecked. Oregon became a destination for addicts where they didn't have to worry about legal troubles that came along with drug use. All

This is an important point. While drugs are decriminalized, crimes such as theft are not. Pro-drug decriminalization people often argue that stuff like theft is still illegal. However, there are so many drug-related thefts that our particular district attorney is unwilling to prosecute them. As a result, law enforcement won't even take them to jail, let alone show up, most of the time. Typically, you file a self-repo…

Every retail store with a 20 mile radius of Portland has put theft deterrent devices on even the most basic items. Home depot locks up almost everything other than lumber now because theft is so prolific. It's frustrating for your average joe trying to shop anymore.

Multnomah DA is an a$$hole and moron...he doesn't care about the people he is supposed to serve.

Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#459

Post by matheusmoreira »

tlogan wrote: post #121

I used to strongly support making drugs legal. I thought: this is a free country, you should be able to do what you want. But what I've seen in San Francisco has made me think differently. Most people who use drugs eventually end up not being able to live like normal adults. And no one willingly goes to get help or treatment. The problem will stick around because politicians care more about how things look. They'll s…

> Most people who use drugs eventually end up not being able to live like normal adults.

Yes. Claiming people can use these things without consequences is just wrong. Anyone who thinks otherwise has clearly never dealt with addicts. The only possible argument for drug decriminalization is getting rid of all the violent crime surrounding it. That's a worthy reason but must certainly be weighed against the significant risks presented by drugs. Lots of people out there have literally never witnessed the extent an opioid addict's drug seeking behavior.

Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#460

Post by P_I_Staker »

zeroCalories wrote: post #350
GeoAtreides wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But nobody would propose making sugar illegal and putting people that eat sugar in jail.

It wouldn't be 1-to-1, but I wouldn't mind a war on sugar. Letting your kids be fat should be treated as child abuse, and you should lose access to medicare/medicaid if you've been fat for too long. People have gotten too soft(pun intended) about the right to do whatever you want.

I think you should be responsible for other peoples poor life decisions.

These decisions are part of the equation for health. eg people exercise poor judgement with their health as a result of another condition and genetics. Those decisions also lead to further health problems.

They’ve found multiple genes tied to obesity. It’s striking how poorly these conditions respond to attempts to get better. At a certain point you either blame the patient, or accept that this is an incurable disease. (by incurable I mean we’re not very effective at curing it).

Why just lash out at someone with a disease, when for the majority of people this isn’t really tough? They just don’t struggle with these issues.

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