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Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

reuters.com

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Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#451

Post by itsoktocry »

stetrain wrote: post #131
cevn wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really does not learn. I have driven the same route to and from Richmond, VA as a range test over and over again since 2018. My range is approx. 180 miles, in favorable conditions (summer, AC off). If it was actually accurate, as soon as you hit 70-80mph you would see your range half. Clearly that doesn't happen, so the estimator is off by ~40% for highway conditions, i.e. complete bullshit.

Are you talking about the battery meter? That is just EPA range * battery percentage. The precise estimate is in the navigation system, when you navigate to a destination and it says you will arrive with X% left. This takes into account speed, traffic, elevation, temperature, wind, etc. and is usually pretty accurate for me.

>This takes into account speed, traffic, elevation, temperature, wind, etc

Can you expand on this? You say etc, what else is included? Where is it documented that this calculation is actually happening, versus something far simpler?

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#452

Post by syndicatedjelly »

rchaud wrote: post #354
Dalewyn wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This really is an extreme and specific example, but risks like this are why most people want lots ( lots ) of range and why gas/diesel cars won't die out any time soon. The sheer ease of mind that comes with having densely packed energy that can be replenished at a moment's notice practically anywhere should not be disregarded easily. Maybe battery tech can get there some day, but it's certainly not today.

Precisely. Gas cars have had their scandals and crises, I dont have to worry about the manufacturer juicing the fuel gauge for marketing purposes. I have been car-free for the past 12 years, but when it'll be time to move to the suburbs, I'll go with what works and is predictable.

Subaru did exactly this in their Outback 6 years ago and had to issue a recall. I got stranded in mine because the "low fuel" light came on when the tank was empty, not when there was a couple gallons left

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#453

Post by api »

malwrar wrote: post #158
jvanderbot wrote: post #8

I have a model Y. I hate almost everything about it. But most germane, The "Battery meter" at the top of the display is total bunk. That's got to be "rosy" numbers. It'll display a the battery in miles, but it's at least 25% inflated. However if you punch in a destination, you'll get exact numbers, and those are insanely reliable. It claims (and I don't believe any claims coming from tesla) that it'll factor wind, el…

I actually got stranded once for some hours because of the mileage indicator! Was driving back from a campsite that I turned out to not have charging compatibility with, but thought I had plenty of margin to get to the nearest charger. As I drove through the mountains however, I began noticing that a.) my battery was depleting much faster than expected and b.) I wasn’t seeing any houses and very few motorists. I watc…

There's an app called PlugShare where people have flagged locations with regular 120V and 240V plugs as well as off the beaten path chargers. There's even some people with home chargers that have left a way to contact them in an emergency and they'll let you charge if you ask nicely. Haven't used any of the latter but they exist.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#454

Post by itsoktocry »

mint2 wrote: post #315
darth_avocado wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a model 3. I recently took a trip of 196 miles but lost almost 270 miles in battery. I wasn’t driving like a maniac, I was on 65 mph cruise control the entire time with no traffic.

How were the Tires inflated? are they stock tires? are the rims the aero dynamic ones? were you using climate control, was their wind? Hills? Any roof cargo? All these have a big effects. Wind can easy be a 3mpg hit for my car, that’s about 10%. Not all the difference but a couple stacked effects could get yours Annoying all these things matter when range is constrained. Next gen batteries can’t come soon enough.

>How were the Tires inflated? are they stock tires? are the rims the aero dynamic ones? were you using climate control, was their wind? Hills? Any roof cargo? All these have a big effects.

True. But none of this should matter if your Tesla actually "learns", as other comments claim, right?

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#455

Post by jodrellblank »

malwrar wrote: post #158
jvanderbot wrote: post #8

I have a model Y. I hate almost everything about it. But most germane, The "Battery meter" at the top of the display is total bunk. That's got to be "rosy" numbers. It'll display a the battery in miles, but it's at least 25% inflated. However if you punch in a destination, you'll get exact numbers, and those are insanely reliable. It claims (and I don't believe any claims coming from tesla) that it'll factor wind, el…

I actually got stranded once for some hours because of the mileage indicator! Was driving back from a campsite that I turned out to not have charging compatibility with, but thought I had plenty of margin to get to the nearest charger. As I drove through the mountains however, I began noticing that a.) my battery was depleting much faster than expected and b.) I wasn’t seeing any houses and very few motorists. I watc…

Slightly off topic, but how come you were going on a multi-hour drive anywhere with no water, let alone into a remote mountainous area on a hot day?

I'm uncomfortably aware how quickly vehicles take me to inconvenient, if not dangerous, distances. 10 miles away is a short distance to drive but three hours to walk. Even fifteen minutes on a bike is a tedious walking distance back if it breaks down. For how easy it is to put or keep some bottled water in a car, why not do that all the time?

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#456

Post by Reubachi »

dinom wrote: post #416
giobox wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can push a tesla in most typical push situations. Sure its heavy, but its in the ballpark of pushing any large sedan or SUV, not just electric ones. You can enable free-rolling wheels in the car and push away, especially if you have luxury of two people pushing. The weight of a Tesla is not some unprecedented figure for a passenger car - a model 3 is no heavier than many BMW 5 series configurations etc. The far b…

> You can enable free-roling wheels in the car and push away This was mentioned a little earlier and further down in the comment tree but many thanks to you too for clearing this up.

I'm racking my brain on this. Why is this not just called exactly what it is, "Neutral"?

I just read about this feature which is advertised purely for car washes, and can be gotten into with a wierd combination of actions or "putting the car into neutral".

Is it...not just going into neutral via disconecting a drive shaft?

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#457

Post by vel0city »

ravenstine wrote: post #442
gonehome wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're there if you need them - not always extremely visible though if you're not driving to one (can see the map here: https://www.tesla.com/supercharger ). If you got a Tesla you'd get a better sense for how many superchargers there are. What you're saying is relevant though and why until recently I didn't really consider non-Tesla EVs an option to recommend if it was your only car (though now that Tesla has pivot…

That's very impressive. I was totally unaware to the extent of where chargers have been placed. There's even a supercharger located in Green River, UT, which was exactly the kind of place I was picturing in my head.

There's a lot more chargers than people realize. A ton have been added in just the last year.

https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_locations.html#/an...

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#458

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

afavour wrote: post #170
edude03 wrote: post #145

I have an S so I'm biased but this feels like a hit piece. Range is of course always going to be an estimate. Marketing is always going to be a battle of who has the bigger number. Having people schedule an appointment to fix their "broken" cars that can only go 470 instead of 500km is of course going to be a waste of time and money. I'm part of a facebook group for tesla owners and literally every day this week ther…

Literally the first paragraph of the piece: > He expected to get something close to the electric sport sedan’s advertised driving range: 353 miles on a fully charged battery. > He soon realized he was sometimes getting less than half that much range We’re not talking about a couple of miles here or there. And if Tesla discovered that range issues (even if entirely based around customer perception) were a widespread e…

> > He soon realized he was sometimes getting less than half that much range

Either he has VERY BAD driving habits, or he's driving in some extreme scenarios.

I have a Model 3 Performance that's estimated to have a 299 mile range, IIRC. I've driven at 75 mph in 30F weather, and it reduced my range to about 230 miles. That's just shy of 25%, which while is certainly a significant reduction, is not the >50% the guy was dealing with.

Do people think they'll get the full EPA range at 70+ mph with the heat or A/C on? I always assumed EPA ranges were done on flat terrain at 60 mph with climate controls off and expected any deviation from that to reduce my range.

That all said, getting over 50% less than estimate range is pretty bad, and unless they're driving fast in super cold weather up hill, it really points to a potentially faulty battery that Tesla is trying to get out of replacing.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#459

Post by crypot »

tekla wrote: post #410
crypot wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is false advertising. FTA: Musk and two local executives did so in a June 19 statement, acknowledging “false/exaggerated advertising.”

Link

You just have to click the title of the thread and it will take you to the Reuters article and you will be able to read the entire story.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

#460

Post by sebzim4500 »

notyourwork wrote: post #415
perfectritone wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last paragraph firmly places this story in America.

Maybe though I know a lot of foreigners in America that act like this. So is it an American problem of a societal problem?

There are plenty of people outside of America that also act like this. It is a humanity problem.
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