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French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

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Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#451

Post by kbelder »

JustBreath wrote: post #442
skitout wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They indeed sometimes destroyed some properties But you cannot blame them for the violence in the protest they co-organized. People are free to attend the protest, and they cannot control them. They never called for violence against police. And most protest now in France have some people fighting with the police. The same way you can see firefighters throwing stuff (including petanque ball) to police during firefighe…

[flagged]

Have to call you out to give you credit, that was an elegant riposte.

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#452

Post by skitout »

qsdf38100 wrote: post #447
skitout wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what Melenchon is doing in its list as one of it core element of its political platform is to have a new constitution with less power to the president, more counter powers, more power "to the people"

Just google Melenchon and Bolivarian alliance. Melenchon dreams of making France be part of an alliance with Cuba, Venezuela, Bolivia, to name a few, with Iran and Russia as observer members. Sounds like he loves "democracy". He also had some crazy outbursts, screaming things like, "I AM THE REPUBLIC", on camera, that would have ended any other politician career. But he gets a pass, somehow.

I am not a fan of Melenchon. I find problematic his taste for the Bolivarian alliance, or his defense of Cuba. I find problematic the lack of democracy in his political party.

But a new constitution with more democracy is still one of the center piece of his political agenda, and the political agenda of his party. That is not the case of any other major party I think. And there is no reason to believe his party would not act at least partially on it if elected.

He's been mocked big time for his "support" of Venezuela or his outbursts... But Macron and many other French political figures faced bigger scandal without having their career ended ! Why such a focus on Melenchon ?

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#453

Post by 93po »

cm2187 wrote: post #85
conradfr wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yesterday the French government dissolved an environmental movement (which I don't like btw), amongst the reasons stated[0] are that they leave their phones at home or switch them off, refuse to talk to the police when arrested, or even that they organize their protest over the internet. When accused of authoritarian tendencies the government usually answers "go to China or North Korea to see what a dictatorship is l…

They have not been dissolved because they left their phone at home, they have been dissolved because it was a violent organisation that was systematically attacking the police and destroying property. And given the sort of stuff they brought to their protests: swords, machettes, baseball bats, jerrycan, bricks, fireworks, petanque balls, Molotov cocktails, fire bombs, etc, it is particularly disingenuous to pretend t…

Okay, so if the government ever wants to shut anything down for any reason, get a few dozen goon squad members to show up as fellow protestors with weapons and cause property damage and smack cops around a little bit?

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#454

Post by anyoneamous »

I mean, everyone is a potential terrorist - so since putting everyone in prison is obviously not practical, maybe the politicians should put themselves in prison then hold a committee meeting on redefining the terms "inside" and "outside" to make themselves feel better.

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#455

Post by alpaca128 »

swayvil wrote: post #393
alpaca128 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “members” of this movement are alledgedly showing “a great culture of secrecy […] and a certain reserve towards technology”. So caring about one's human right to privacy is a "culture of secrecy" now

The desire to be alone has been scientifically proven to be a disease of the mind and a sure sign of antisocial tendencies. (s,lr,d)

I don't know how you jumped from "privacy" to "desire to be alone", those two things are barely related. Locking the toilet door isn't antisocial and talking to someone in private isn't either.

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#456

Post by skitout »

pif wrote: post #345
skitout wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Few months after the start of the Gilet Jaune, they were not "blocking the country" anymore (I was answering a comment about this)... And while not supporting the Gilet Jaune mode of action anymore, people still strongly supported and support the main ideas they pushed, like Citizens' initiative referendum, or the Solidarity tax on wealth

> while not supporting the Gilet Jaune mode of action anymore, people still strongly supported and support the main ideas they pushed Imagine how successful they could have been if they had behaved as civilised people from the beginning! I personally like some of those ideas, but I'll never trust people who think that violence is justifiable.

Seriously ?

In France the only way firefighter got heard the last few times, after month of peaceful protestation, is by doing violent protest, including throwing heavy thing on the policeman. Then the government accepted to negociate with them. If you don't use violence in France, in many case you don't get heard at all.

Gilets Jaunes, aslo because of their violence did manage to get the government to made some concession.

Millions of French people (more than Gilets Jaunes at their peak) marched several times peacefully against the recent Pension Law, supported by all the trade union democratically elected, supported by more than 70% of the population and more than 90% of the workers. Nothing happen. No concession. Not even a vote in the parliament.

For sure sometimes violence is efficient, sometimes violence in counter-productive. Justifiable ? that is something else...

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#457

Post by skitout »

pif wrote: post #406
dtoma wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this point, and it's one we see very often. What would have happened if they'd been civilised? 1. We had a convention citoyenne pour le climat. Macron then mostly ignored it. 2. We have elected representatives who can vote on the laws for us. Macron then used article 49.3 to mostly ignore them. 3. Vote? For which candidate? None of them would cover all of the GJs' demands. If you disqualify protest…

> 1. We had a convention citoyenne pour le climat. Macron then mostly ignored it. The reality is: talking about CO2 emissions is talking about economy. That is the main job of the government. > 2. We have elected representatives who can vote on the laws for us. Macron then used article 49.3 to mostly ignore them. Macron did not ignore them. 49.3 means: "I'm ready to go on this point; are you ready, too?". And, by the…

So basically your are saying that:

- peaceful protest or "convention citoyenne" are not and should not be efficient

- We don't care what the vast majority of people want, and we don't care about the parliament.

- The only thing we should care is what think the President. The one who got the support of barely 20% of the French population on the first round, and them got elected on the second round because people voted against the far right... In a "presidential Monarchy"

What a nice conception of "democracy"

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#458

Post by qsdf38100 »

skitout wrote: post #452
qsdf38100 wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just google Melenchon and Bolivarian alliance. Melenchon dreams of making France be part of an alliance with Cuba, Venezuela, Bolivia, to name a few, with Iran and Russia as observer members. Sounds like he loves "democracy". He also had some crazy outbursts, screaming things like, "I AM THE REPUBLIC", on camera, that would have ended any other politician career. But he gets a pass, somehow.

I am not a fan of Melenchon. I find problematic his taste for the Bolivarian alliance, or his defense of Cuba. I find problematic the lack of democracy in his political party. But a new constitution with more democracy is still one of the center piece of his political agenda, and the political agenda of his party. That is not the case of any other major party I think. And there is no reason to believe his party would…

His views about a new constitution with more democracy are worthless to me, as I see him as a bad faith actor, exploiting the usual populist tactics such as permanent outrage, inflammatory discourse, obstruction of debates, conflictualization of everything, exacerbating existing social tensions, defining democracy around concepts like "the revolution", "the people", etc.

How is it not obvious to everyone? It's obvious to me that would this guy be president, his already very authoritarian tendencies would only get worse. How comes his political agenda is relevant?

He rules his political party as a Great Leader while having no democratic relevance, as he got rejected at all past elections. Not to mention his ridiculous PR stunt when he was boasting about being the next prime minister. He is so full of shit, I'm astonished he still is listened to. He can't get to govern from elections, so he fantasizes about bypassing all that with a good'ol Socialist Revolution™.

So I think there are LOTS of reasons to believe his party (so basically himself) would not act as promised if elected. I think he would quickly identify countless enemies of the People. I think disagreeing with him would make anyone an enemy of the People. Today, it's already quite courageous for any journalist to disagree with him in front of him. The guy has serious anger management issues, and usually addresses such journalists with threats and accusations. Seeing how he behaves on camera, I can only imagine how it is to disagree with him privately.

Now, not saying Macron is perfect by any means, but I'd be curious to hear about these bigger scandals that didn't end his career.

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#459

Post by Guthur »

WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #398
Guthur wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yeah everyone must work harder, for some reason we have more technology than ever before and more people than ever before, but we all must work harder. There's enough food and energy if we so choose but no; artificial crisis from coughs to barbarian hordes on the horizon mean you must be poorer and work harder. We could all just actually wake up and realise they are lying they are always lying. They dare not tell…

You are confused. The issue is not about working harder. The issue is with producing value. I have yet to met a protester who can explain to me how burning cars and picketing is going to magically move down the median age of the population which is slowly but surely drifting towards 50. Considering most French also don’t want to rely on immigration (not that the country is attractive anyway), I guess they are either…

They are the people of power, the psychotics and narcissists. It's not that hard to see.

I've existed here long enough to see those that claw themselves to the top, and they are nearly all without fail a combination of psychopaths and narcissists and they will conspire to increase their power and self obsession. I'm very sure you've bumped into them at some point in your life.

The problem is that most of the people are weak and passive and they can not compete against this "they", the majority don't have the will to do it individually and our collective will is either captured by the "they" or kept divided.

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#460

Post by skitout »

pif wrote: post #405
dtoma wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this point, and it's one we see very often. What would have happened if they'd been civilised? 1. We had a convention citoyenne pour le climat. Macron then mostly ignored it. 2. We have elected representatives who can vote on the laws for us. Macron then used article 49.3 to mostly ignore them. 3. Vote? For which candidate? None of them would cover all of the GJs' demands. If you disqualify protest…

> You only see violence in protesters who break windows, not in governments who enact laws on their people. A government trying to manage a country has a ton of compromises to make every day; I do not expect to be happy with every one of their choices, but I think the current government is doing OK. On the other side, I fail to see how breaking a window can solve the problem of the protester. > If you disqualify prot…

So when your grandma wait hours in her shit and piss in a corridor of an hospital because their are not enough bed and enough nurses, and then suffer bad after effects because of this waiting time, this is not some sort of violence according to you ?

When even journalists from le Figaro (right wing newspaper) have to protest brutality against journalists.... the violence is only coming from the protester ?

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