European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries • Hacker News Board

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#451

Post by DropInIn » Sat, Jun 17, 2023, 6:23 AM UTC

hilbert42 wrote: post #415

DropInIn wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Under your model any author would immediately lose protections unless they could afford the fees.... If you can't see the glaring problems there then there's no hope for you.... But hopefully you immediately recognize that it hurts the least advantaged the greatest while also providing a mechanism for anticompetitive behavior under the guise of following your precept (make the fee high enough and only established aut…

"If you can't see the glaring problems there then there's no hope for you...." Correct, but easily solved if the tax were to be based on license sales numbers and income. Small/poor license owners would pay almost nothing whereas the big players would pay plenty.

How does that resolve the issue of IP squatting that is in question?

If there's no income the fee is negligible, permitting the rights holder to squat on them for next to nothing and prevent the use of the otherwise abandoned IP by the public....

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#452

Post by Nemo_bis » Sat, Jun 17, 2023, 6:23 AM UTC

earthboundkid wrote: post #416

unglaublich wrote: post #7

The problem is not really the battery anymore, it's the software mainly. It's all closed source and is often deprecated before the hardware is dead. Then the manufacturer makes it hard to unlock bootloaders; keeps drivers closed source and effectively bricks the device. For recurring sales are the backbone of modern economy so we must force obsolescence. Why would you want to replace a battery in a useless device? Pl…

I’ve made a similar suggestion on HN before. Have a minimum support period for internet connected devices, and once you stop updating after that minimum, you’re required to unlock the hardware and open source everything.

That can't work, because the suppliers will be bankrupt already. However one could something like Portico, which keeps journals in archive and releases them to the public if the original goes down. Manufacturers could be forced to deposit all the source code for the software they release on their product, and the deposited source code be released to the public after X years if there is no support for security updates any more. The difference being, if they don't comply the EU can withdraw the products from the market _before_ they're sold.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#453

Post by scarface_74 » Sat, Jun 17, 2023, 6:24 AM UTC

bmicraft wrote: post #359

eterevsky wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a battery lasts a couple of days, I would much rather my phone were waterproof than be able to swap the battery. Having a power bank solves the problem of discharged phone for me, and anyway I almost never have to use it. Being able to drop your phone in the water and pick it up still working is far more valuable to me.

Galaxy S5 had both and at 8.1mm/0.31in was thinner than phones are now. I don't see why I should have to choose 9 years later

You’re at least the third person to say this without the disclaimer - only if the rubber flap was securely covering the ports when it was dropped in water.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#454

Post by roenxi » Sat, Jun 17, 2023, 6:26 AM UTC

tgv wrote: post #437

roenxi wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If these are normal times, then we really must question what the hell the EU is doing as part of its normal operations (hint: see the headline at the top of this web page). There are a lot of urgent problems to deal with and political bandwidth is being spent on an obsession by politicians and/or bureaucrats who think they have better design chops than Apple, world's premier category-defining phone designer. It'd be…

The amount of assumptions you need to defend your anti-EU stance! First, the EU doesn't have that much power. It's restricted to commerce and a small part of intergovernmental policy. Defense, tax, criminal laws, education, wellfare, etc., are all outside its remit. Second, this doesn't take that much "political bandwidth." Someone proposes it, they discuss, end of. This is not an attempt at extending the parliament'…

> Third, where do you get the idea from that Apple makes the best design decisions for consumers?

https://www.oberlo.com/statistics/most-popular-phone-brands

If someone decides to buy the phone that is best for them, most likely designer of that phone is going to be Apple.

If you like maybe there is an argument it is Samsung or a Chinese company - but fact is that Europe, as far as real-world results, doesn't have a person on the continent who is willing and able to make a good phone. They certainly don't have someone like that working for the EU.

> First, the EU doesn't have that much power.

Less power they have, the more it matters what they draw attention to.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#455

Post by Nemo_bis » Sat, Jun 17, 2023, 6:27 AM UTC

kmeisthax wrote: post #299

RobotToaster wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK, if a company that owns intellectual property is dissolved, it becomes bona vacantia, and is officially property of the King. There's an entire government department dedicated to selling this property.

Wait, are you telling me that the UK actually has a halfway-decent solution to the orphan works problem!?

They wouldn't be orphan if we knew who holds the corresponding rights. Selling the liquidated estates could help with certain out of commerce works, but I wonder how many such cases exists. Usually other publishers buy the catalogue just to keep it quiet and reduce the competition, even if they have no intention to reprint anything.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#456

Post by DropInIn » Sat, Jun 17, 2023, 6:28 AM UTC

beefield wrote: post #425

DropInIn wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Under your model any author would immediately lose protections unless they could afford the fees.... If you can't see the glaring problems there then there's no hope for you.... But hopefully you immediately recognize that it hurts the least advantaged the greatest while also providing a mechanism for anticompetitive behavior under the guise of following your precept (make the fee high enough and only established aut…

> I really get the feeling you didn't think it through at all.... I said the structure can be discussed. There is no problem giving first number of years free to see if the IP is commercially viable. The aggressive progression (doubling every year) means that literally all IP is in public domain after a couple of decades.

You saying "it can be discussed" doesn't change that your model is flawed on its face, with no amount of extra layers of ad hoc workarounds able to overcome those blatant flaws....

A simpler solution is to start with a return to something resembling the original IP laws where one lost their rights within their own lifetime.... Theres a reason that was originally proposed, rather than lifetime protections, and why creators originally accepted it with glee... All parties need to remember those reasons, whether rights holder, state or consumer.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#457

Post by _ZeD_ » Sat, Jun 17, 2023, 6:30 AM UTC

unglaublich wrote: post #7

The problem is not really the battery anymore, it's the software mainly. It's all closed source and is often deprecated before the hardware is dead. Then the manufacturer makes it hard to unlock bootloaders; keeps drivers closed source and effectively bricks the device. For recurring sales are the backbone of modern economy so we must force obsolescence. Why would you want to replace a battery in a useless device? Pl…

>>> Please, EU

you know... you could also try asking the US government to do it...

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#458

Post by Nemo_bis » Sat, Jun 17, 2023, 6:31 AM UTC

roenxi wrote: post #370

unglaublich wrote: post #7

The problem is not really the battery anymore, it's the software mainly. It's all closed source and is often deprecated before the hardware is dead. Then the manufacturer makes it hard to unlock bootloaders; keeps drivers closed source and effectively bricks the device. For recurring sales are the backbone of modern economy so we must force obsolescence. Why would you want to replace a battery in a useless device? Pl…

Is this really [0] the most [1] important issue [2] that the EU should be focusing [3] on? Going by HN traffic, it appears that what the EU is for is to redesign the iPhone to get the details right that techies disagree with Applle on. We live in extreme times with some remarkable challenges - the EU is wasting bandwidth on this triviality. And it isn't a phone manufacturer, it is probably not going to make phones ch…

Reducing e-waste is an important part of addressing climate change, which is the most important issue, so: Yes.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#459

Post by edflsafoiewq » Sat, Jun 17, 2023, 6:39 AM UTC

_ZeD_ wrote: post #457

unglaublich wrote: post #7

The problem is not really the battery anymore, it's the software mainly. It's all closed source and is often deprecated before the hardware is dead. Then the manufacturer makes it hard to unlock bootloaders; keeps drivers closed source and effectively bricks the device. For recurring sales are the backbone of modern economy so we must force obsolescence. Why would you want to replace a battery in a useless device? Pl…

>>> Please, EU you know... you could also try asking the US government to do it...

Yeah, and ask God too while we're at it.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#460

Post by pmontra » Sat, Jun 17, 2023, 6:42 AM UTC

robin_reala wrote: post #51

Feels like, as per usual, people haven’t read the source text.[1] In order to ensure that portable batteries that were incorporated into appliances are subject to separate collection, treatment and high quality recycling once those appliances become waste, provisions to ensure the removability and replaceability of batteries in such appliances are necessary. Consumer safety should be ensured, in line with Union law a…

The only non compliance for my Samsung A40 is the glue: it holds the cover to the body of the phone and the battery to the back of the screen. Everything else is a dozen of small screws and cabling. Do without the glue and everybody can replace the battery. Was the old times 5 seconds battery replacement better? Yes.