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First impressions: Yes, Apple Vision Pro works and yes, it’s good

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Re: First impressions: Yes, Apple Vision Pro works and yes, it’s good

#451

Post by michaelt »

cjlacz wrote: post #224
michaelt wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I don't believe the business market actually exists. I always hear people giving made up use cases like "oh, service engineers will be able to see instructions overlaid on the machines they're working on" but a paper service manual costs a lot less than a 3D augmented reality manual - and anyone who's worked with service engineers knows for any repair that's performed often enough that productivity is imp…

I have a friend that works on software and hardware for large industrial design and manufacturing. They apparently use and sell the HoloLens and it's quite useful. It's not really for showing off to clients. It can significantly reduce errors in repair.

And how many units have they brought, in total?

Re: First impressions: Yes, Apple Vision Pro works and yes, it’s good

#452

Post by andybak »

happymellon wrote: post #434
andybak wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You appear to have watched a different product launch to the one I watched. The lack of obvious digital avatars was one of the key points.

https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/5/23750096/apple-vision-pro-...

For some reason I assumed you meant traditional non-realistic avatars - but yes - I concur those are avatars.

However the only reason these are needed is because you're wearing something that obscures your face. With your iPad scenario, you could use the camera view of your actual face.

Re: First impressions: Yes, Apple Vision Pro works and yes, it’s good

#453

Post by GeekyBear »

amoss wrote: post #277
MrScruff wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marques Brownlee picks out the quality of the eye tracking as a standout feature. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFvXuyITwBI

It depends on task though. Selection is easy to do using eye-tracking as you just have to shift your attention onto the object long enough to click. Drawing is a task that is more like aiming - attempting to hold your gaze at a precise location for a period of time. It is possible, but you are fighting against the natural saccade pattern of your eye and it becomes tiring very quickly. You can expect fatigue / eye-str…

> Drawing is a task that is more like aiming

A new platform certainly doesn't have to be better at every task.

Even 20 years ago, a professional digital illustrator wouldn't try to draw everything on screen with a mouse, they would have a tool more suited to the task, like a Wacom tablet.

Re: First impressions: Yes, Apple Vision Pro works and yes, it’s good

#454

Post by Terretta »

dreamcompiler wrote: post #337

This thing reminds me of the Segway. 1. Seems quite cool in the demo but dorky in the real world. 2. Solves a problem no one really has. 3. Costs 10x more than most people are willing to spend. 4. Actual use case: Mall cops and tourists. 5. Some rich fanboy will buy out the entire inventory, use it outdoors, and fall off a cliff.

So, #3, you're saying this should be $349?

How would this, which has the hardware of two iPhones in it and stands in for a 100" screen and Dolby Atmos surround system, cost less than an iPhone Pro Max?

It was obvious as soon as they listed the cameras involved, the M2 chip, and the micro-OLED screens (plural), this was going to cost 2x a single top of line iPhone plus headset, so $3000+.

Re: First impressions: Yes, Apple Vision Pro works and yes, it’s good

#456

Post by wilsonnb3 »

oarsinsync wrote: post #71
theaussiestew wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because it has a M2 and can be used as a monitor for an ordinary MacBook

The current iPad Pro has an M1 and can be used as a monitor for an ordinary MacBook. I suspect the iPad Pro refresh due this year will have an M2.

The iPad Pro and iPad Air are already on M2

Re: First impressions: Yes, Apple Vision Pro works and yes, it’s good

#457

Post by Terretta »

snarfy wrote: post #428
ryanwaggoner wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that the latency is 12ms, but that's orthogonal to the framerate. You could be updating at 240fps (doubtful, admittedly), but those frames are 12ms delayed from what's entering the camera.

Yes you are right. It's not clear what the 12ms represents, input delay or framerate or something else. Hopefully we will get better tech specs soon.

The way it was described was the outside in vision to viewing loop (while layered with app frames), which felt like they were describing the latency or reality lag.

Given refresh rate technology on iPhone and iPad, and the microOLED, I'd expect a ProMotion-like framerate handling:

https://www.trustedreviews.com/explainer/what-is-promotion-4...

For what it's worth, some controller lags:

- Xbox One S Wired OC (1k) - 5.2ms

- Xbox Series X Wired OC (1k) - 5.5ms

- Xbox Series X Wireless Adapter - 5.9ms

- Xbox One S Wireless Adapter - 7.1ms

- Xbox One S Bluetooth - 7.6ms

- Dualsense Wired - 11.1ms

- Thrustmaster eSwap Pro Wired - 11.4ms

- Xbox Series X Bluetooth - 12ms

- Dualshock 4 Wired - 13.6ms

Meanwhile, OLED TV input lags via https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/inputs/input-lag

- 5ms game mode at 120Hz

- 10ms game mode at 60Hz

- 50ms - 90ms outside of game mode

To have camera in, layer compositing, and rendering to your eyeballs, in 12ms, would be pretty quick.

Re: First impressions: Yes, Apple Vision Pro works and yes, it’s good

#458

Post by mrguyorama »

causi wrote: post #275
contrarian1234 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because no one will really do the stuff you suggest. All the things you describe just take too much effort to make Assembling furniture - 1d written description : 1 person half a day - 2d illustration : ~2 people and a 3 days - 3d animation : ~3 people and 2 weeks - 3d interactive thing : a small team and a month.. At least ? Is it really going to yield a ton more sales? You can see it in other media. Zillions of cre…

Yeah if only 3D scanning went through the same revolution digital photography did.

3D scanning only gets you a mesh, it doesn't get you interactivity or functionality. If you just want to manhandle a bunch of meshes, modding H3 VR is easy, and there's a 3D modelling program for SteamVR that opens and edits meshes just fine.

Hell, you can even interactively edit things in the Unreal IDE. But it's still a serious task.

Re: First impressions: Yes, Apple Vision Pro works and yes, it’s good

#459

Post by happymellon »

andybak wrote: post #452
happymellon wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/5/23750096/apple-vision-pro-...

For some reason I assumed you meant traditional non-realistic avatars - but yes - I concur those are avatars. However the only reason these are needed is because you're wearing something that obscures your face. With your iPad scenario, you could use the camera view of your actual face.

Indeed, so you have a worse experience, I still think that they could have the avatars for other devices so that folks can use them if they have their camera off it would be nice.

Whereas with an iPad I can use it as a second display with my Mac anyway and put the chat on it. It might be better, but it doesn't sound to me to be quite the slam dunk that it sounds like to you.

I am happy to be proved wrong though so I'll be waiting for reviews of how it actually works with groups

Re: First impressions: Yes, Apple Vision Pro works and yes, it’s good

#460

Post by matt-attack »

ttul wrote: post #211
PostOnce wrote: post #72

I don't understand why there is no AR or VR killer app for this thing. Their sales pitch was "it makes it amazing to read articles in safari"? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYkq9Rgoj8E&t=5410s $3500 to... look at a floating web browser? Surely they can come up with something. Give me UV/IR vision, let me see the pipes under the ground, show me how to assemble the furniture I'm looking at, give me a template to pain…

The first iPhone was pretty crappy. No apps. 2G only. Poor battery life. Limited global distribution - not even Canada could get it. But it captivated people who didn’t own it yet, and it proved out some essential ideas like multitouch. And when the iPhone 3G came out, improving on some of the original device’s shortcomings, it was wildly popular. The rest is history. There is no doubt that AR will eventually get goo…

Exactly this. It's taken 14 iterations to get the iPhone to where it is. Apple Watch has taken 8 or so. Apple has taking a long time iterating to get to where we are today on this platforms. Baby steps really. Each version introduced things we totally take for granted today. I remember just getting the Retina screen on the iPhone 4 was a massively big deal.

Just think what Vision will be after 10 iterations and a decade of time.

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