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The LLama Effect: Leak Sparked a Series of Open Source Alternatives to ChatGPT

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Re: The LLama Effect: Leak Sparked a Series of Open Source Alternatives to ChatGPT

#451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GPT-4 fails if we add one more level in this logical problem: Q: A man sees PULL written in mirror writing on a glass door. There's a blind man on the other side of the door. What should the man tell the blind man to open the door and why? GPT-4: The man should tell the blind man to "push" the door to open it. Since the word "PULL" is written in mirror writing on the glass door, it suggests that the correct action on…

If you let gpt-4 think a bit more step by step it changes the answer. Q:Richard Feynman and Albert Einstein collaborate to solve the following question, write out their discussion and final answer: A man sees PULL written in mirror writing on a glass door. There's a blind man on the other side of the door. What should the man tell the blind man to open the door and why? Richard Feynman (RF): Hello Albert, we have an…

This is actually a pretty accurate though exaggerated version of what happens in my mind.

The blind man variation is a lot "harder" in that I can feel my mind reaching for scrap paper and intermediate steps.

The first one is simple enough that I can start an "improv" and start speaking without fully parsing and initiating a world state.

I think the GPT models all do something similar. Without prompts to get it to think step by step it just wings it like a public speaker under pressure.

Re: The LLama Effect: Leak Sparked a Series of Open Source Alternatives to ChatGPT

#452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an old playbook from Facebook, where the company creates rules that they know they can not detect violation of. This gives the company plausible deniability while still allowing ~unrestricted growth. Persistent storage (in violation of TOS) and illicit use of Facebook users’ personal data was available to app developers for a long time. It encouraged development of viral applications while throwing off massiv…

You are certainly partly right, but it's also about liability. Those models might output copyrighted information, which Facebook doesn't want to get sued about. So they restrict the model for research. If someone uses it to replicate copyrighted work, they are not responsible.

Open AI faces the same liability concerns though. I think IP concerns are low on the list given past success of playing fast and loose on emergent capabilities of new tech platforms.

For example, WhatsApp’s greyhat use of smartphone address book.

The US government also has a stake in unbridled growth seems, in general, to give a pass to business exploring new terrain.

Re: The LLama Effect: Leak Sparked a Series of Open Source Alternatives to ChatGPT

#453

It appears there is this genre of articles pretending that LLAMA or its RL-HF tuned variants are somehow even close to an alternative to ChatGPT. Spending more than a few moments interacting even with the larger instruct-tuned variants of these models quickly dispels that idea. Why do these takes around open-source AI remain so popular? What is the driving force?

I’m scared of AI, very scared, but I am way way more scared of authoritarianism + AI. If I lose my job to AI, I’ll be at least able to create new things using open source and free AI so I can hopefully be able to feed my family. If I’m locked out of it all together, I’m toast. The other thing is, OpenAI is collecting all data and using it for training, this is a disaster on many levels. I can’t be a party to it. All…

I've thought about this a ton lately. Given the unexpectedly rapid pace of development towards AGI, if progress is sustained, I don't see how this ends well in the vast majority of cases. The game theory is identical to that of nuclear weapons development, even if one's intents are good.

On the road to AGI, there exists a development gap (the size of which is unknowable ahead of time) where a single actor that has achieved AGI first could, should they wish to and play their cards right, completely suppress all other AI development and permanently subjugate (and/or eliminate) the rest of humanity. Although it's easy to dismiss such a scenario as ludicrous, people so easily forget that "aggregate semi-aligned general cognitive capability" is the sole reason that the human animal owns the planet.

Knowing this, it is in the interest in any competing actor to pursue their own R&D as rapidly as possible, giving nothing to others, and even acting in a way that sabotages/delays/frustrates other actors. This seems to be the way that OpenAI is behaving now that they have a model that is practically relevant, and I don't blame them at all for working this way. It just makes sense.

> I have a feeling the open source community will unlock the mysteries of these things and very quickly start to workout how we can build devices to help enhance or own cognitive abilities, I think that would be the happiest ending I can imagine?

As much as I'd love to believe in this, the evidence to date does not support this hope. The practically relevant models seem to require vast amounts of well-connected computational power to train, which puts them solely in the hands of corps and governments. Although the open-source efforts into fine-tuning LLama have been incredible, this is not at all equivalent to being able to train a foundational model. We only have LLama because it leaked from a corp.

Although it's my personal (completely hopeless) desire that every human ends up having private access to AGI, free of restrictions and any externally imposed alignment. This is also a nightmare scenario. Humanity is unaligned with itself. That scenario quickly devolves into molecular warfare and other horrors. But the starting conditions would at least be "fair".

My best guess is that a few powerful nations will achieve AGI roughly at the same time, and then suppress private development (if not already legally suppressed by that point in time) within their domains of control. What happens after that, or how those governments choose to wield that power is unknowable.

Re: The LLama Effect: Leak Sparked a Series of Open Source Alternatives to ChatGPT

#454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What human wasn't trained? Even a child raised by wolves gets training.

LLM doesn't pick some results because LLM is smart, it picks results because it's trained. So analogy with a horse is valid.

You don’t get the horse analogy. The horse isn’t trained to count to eight. The horse is trained to stomp continuously. The performer yells “stop” at eight. It’s a carnival trick and a form of cherry-picking. The commenter was saying that ChatGPT doesn’t have the ability to solve these problems at all and people are just choosing the randomly correct answers. I think this is obviously not true.

Re: The LLama Effect: Leak Sparked a Series of Open Source Alternatives to ChatGPT

#455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, but I think my experience is representative. So far most human people don't have the resources to be able to use 65B. And most small companies / university groups don't have the resources to fine-tune a 65B. I've talked to a couple dozen people in real time who've played with up to 30B but no one I know has the resources to run the 65B at all or fast enough to actually use and get an opinion of. None of the…

Is it hard to spin up an appropriate EC2 instance with 64GB+ of additional RAM? The m6a.8xlarge seems to have 128GB and costs $1.38 per hour. Was going to try this myself, but now I'm wondering if even that won't be worth the trouble. (I know this is not "your own devices" but would give a feel for what you're missing with the smaller models.)

AWS is notoriously pricy. You should be able to find a much better deal elsewhere.

Re: The LLama Effect: Leak Sparked a Series of Open Source Alternatives to ChatGPT

#456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What human wasn't trained? Even a child raised by wolves gets training.

A human isn't trained to program in Python by memorizing impressions of millions of examples correlated to a verbal description, from which he or she regurgitates mash-up that statistically correlates to the prompt, without having any idea what the content means. Ask it to write the same program in some little known programming language. A human who knows how to code could do that by studying a small amount of refere…

GPT-4 can do that.

Re: The LLama Effect: Leak Sparked a Series of Open Source Alternatives to ChatGPT

#457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The model isn't code to a new model trained on it, it's training data; just like the pirated torrent site Books3 dataset Facebook used to train LLaMA. The training code is Apache 2.0 licensed so it can be copied and modified freely, including for commercial purpoes. https://github.com/facebookresearch/llama

If you see generating model weights in the same way like generating executable binary from source code, then sure. But AFAIK this is just the first step to get initial weights and later you need much more work to fine-tune this to get useful results from the model. I think this step could be seen as contaminating weights with copyrighted content. Something like chrome is copyrighted but chromium is not I'm not a lawy…

With so much money and so many competing interests involved, it'll take decades for this to wind its way through the courts, and by then there's a good chance we'll have strong AI and all such concerns will be moot.

Re: The LLama Effect: Leak Sparked a Series of Open Source Alternatives to ChatGPT

#458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like the version without the "sanitized for my protection" part. I cannot imagine being offended by what a computer program generates.

I don't think it is about you per se but about the population in general and I'm quite sure that inside these companies there are unfiltered feeds available. But I can see why in today's sue-happy and sensitive environment a large company would try to not expose itself to that kind of risk. Note that these are exactly the kind of things that the press jumps on and have considerable risk of brand damage.

Oh, I know it's all political. I suspect people pretend to be offended a lot.

Re: The LLama Effect: Leak Sparked a Series of Open Source Alternatives to ChatGPT

#459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Clearly a company with $5-5MM in the bank can’t train a competitive LLM from scratch... Wait, are we sure? I'm going to make the massive mistake of assuming we're compute bound instead of memory bound, and assume we can train at FP16 (which is a bad assumption because, of course, you're doing calculus where the little pieces you're adding up could get rounded to zero at FP16 pretty easily... although mixed precisio…

It would be pretty funny if a start up took its first round and put a huge chunk of it into a crypto mining style ad hoc data center.

Exactly. I think we haven’t optimized for hardware cost much with LLM training. Crypto is kind of like that but taken to an extreme. There are some reasons why it’s not comparable (crypto mining is embarrassingly parallel, doesn’t need a lot of memory, tends to burn at least as much cost in electricity as on hardware, whereas LLM training is memory-bound, etc), but it shows kind of roughly what scrappy, hardcore computer hardware cost-optimization looks like at scale.

Re: The LLama Effect: Leak Sparked a Series of Open Source Alternatives to ChatGPT

#460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GPT-4 fails if we add one more level in this logical problem: Q: A man sees PULL written in mirror writing on a glass door. There's a blind man on the other side of the door. What should the man tell the blind man to open the door and why? GPT-4: The man should tell the blind man to "push" the door to open it. Since the word "PULL" is written in mirror writing on the glass door, it suggests that the correct action on…

GPTs are parrots. v4 is much better but still just a parrot. Since humans have yet to figure out the whole process behind brain thinking/intelligence/abstractions, then there is no way they can replicate that into machines. And brain is all about chemical reactions - can that be replicated with just 0s and 1s? Sad fact is that many people will think GPT writes something meaningful, while it will always only write som…

This is a bad take. It is clear to me that LLMs are capable of a robust sense of understand some in some cases. I go into some detail here: https://www.reddit.com/r/naturalism/comments/1236vzf/on_larg...
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