Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

nato.int

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

451–460 of 521 posts

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#451

Post by koonsolo »

tim333 wrote: post #435
foverzar wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally strange given that love to democracies have nothing to do with anything. Srsly, how do the "United democracies" expect to be taken seriously when their whole attitude to literally everything is "bad guys don't like us for being good boys"?

NATO seems to get taken quite seriously by its opponents for some strange reason.

Exactly, and in the end that's the only thing that matters: power. We in the western world can be very happy that democracies represent the biggest power.

Anyone who doesn't agree is free to emigrate or happily live in a dictatorship of course.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#452

Post by tpmx »

INTPenis wrote: post #325
bee_rider wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody expects the attack from Kaliningrad!

It would be very hard to pull off tho. Seeing as our neighbors would supply intel and equipment, while they have to cross the baltic sea in plain view. I mean they can barely take southern Ukraine.

It would be trivial to send an Iskander missile to Gotland to derail the NATO application.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#453

Post by tasuki »

The_Colonel wrote: post #432
foverzar wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm pretty fucking relieved the nightmare is over. Ouch. Genuinely hate to be the bearer of bad news, but everything I know about politics (especially from Russian perspective) tells me that this is only the beginning and uncorking of a potential conflict. I assume, you do not expect that NATO membership would put Finland into a direct hot confrontation with Russia, thus turning into a kind of a self-fulfilling pro…

> I assume, you do not expect that NATO membership would put Finland into a direct hot confrontation with Russia, thus turning into a kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy? Neutrality is no protection against aggression. Vienna was famously one of the first targets for Soviet nuclear strike.

Is there a list somewhere?

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#454

Post by sixstringninja »

kreeben wrote: post #28
The_Colonel wrote: post #4

Finland got de-Finlandized at last. Which is what the expansion of NATO was always about. NATO isn't a threat to Russia itself - if Russia seriously feared NATO aggression, it wouldn't voluntarily demilitarize its NATO borders during the past 13 months. NATO expansion just neutralizes Russian ability to force its will upon its neighbors through threat of aggression (or in case like Ukraine through the use of aggressi…

>> just Hah, yeah, that's not a big deal at all, neutralizing Russian ability to force its will upon its neighbors, through threats of aggression. Like, who's scared of Russia these days? They're just empty threats. I'd like totally bet my life on it, just empty threats. EDIT: /s

So far it is. All empty threats

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#455

Post by koonsolo »

TheCoelacanth wrote: post #307
coffeebeqn wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a voluntary alliance. Countries apply to join. They’re not coerced. Small countries will and sovereignty also matters.

Russia perceives small countries bordering them having sovereignty as an encroachment on its territory. Don't they realize that they are supposed to be Russian puppet states?

If Russia would play nice, maybe the countries around them wouldn't mind having win-win deals with them.

But somehow Russia thinks master-slave relationships are better.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#456

Post by The_Colonel »

tasuki wrote: post #453
The_Colonel wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I assume, you do not expect that NATO membership would put Finland into a direct hot confrontation with Russia, thus turning into a kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy? Neutrality is no protection against aggression. Vienna was famously one of the first targets for Soviet nuclear strike.

Is there a list somewhere?

No list, but some details are here: https://www.independent.ie/world-news/vienna-top-of-soviet-n...

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#457

Post by bart_spoon »

yeahwhatever10 wrote: post #226
INTPenis wrote: post #157

As a Swede this makes me happy, partially because Finland shares a lot of their border with Russia and can now feel safe knowing they have the might of 30 nations behind them, but also because we're now surrounded by NATO countries. So no need for us to join, right? Right?! Let's remain neutral and a free haven for political dissidents and potential refugees of the future, right?!!

Is that how NATO is spoken about in Europe, that it is the might of 30 nations and not just the US?

The US may be the bulk of the military might backing NATO, but it’s the collectiveness of the alliance is a pretty important piece IMO. If the US were to some way be compromised, say, through a debilitating first strike (unlikely), or Trump-esque domestic factors making them unreliable, you still have a huge, powerful coalition.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#458

Post by Gibbon1 »

myth_drannon wrote: post #168
xkcd1963 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's true, since the October Revolution the Soviets didn't actually serve their people

And before the Revolution, Tsarist regime did even more horrowing things to its people. Sadly Russia never had a ruling entity that was good. Well there was hope in the 80's with Gorbachev and Krushev with his Thaw period, but these were short lived and the system went back to its stable state of terrorizing its citizens.

Thing to remember is the Russian Revolution of 1905 changed the structure of the Russian government to a constitutional Monarchy. That's what the communists overthrew and replaced with something far worse.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#459

Post by morkalork »

jnsaff2 wrote: post #422
Convolutional wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Under what circumstances would Finland be at war with Russia? Lithuania is in NATO, so Russian conflict with any other NATO member drags Lithuania in.

Under what circumstances would Lithuania be at war with russia?

[flagged]

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#460

Post by amai »

Mutjake wrote: post #37

As General Adolf Ehrnrooth aptly put it ”Ei enää koskaan yksin”, ”We should never again defend ourselves alone” as the lesson of the Winter War. Glad that we finally acted on that lesson and got allied. Another nail in the coffin of finlandization, albeit with a heavy price the Ukrainians continue to pay every day.

> Glad that we finally acted on that lesson and got allied.

The first ally of Finnland after the winter war was Nazi Germany.

So it is actually the second try to find allies for Finnland against Russia.

Post reply on HN