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John Carmack’s ‘Different Path’ to Artificial General Intelligence

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451–460 of 506 posts

Re: John Carmack’s ‘Different Path’ to Artificial General Intelligence

#451
post #214

> Well, you can tie that into a lot of questions, like, ‘Is human population a good thing?’ ‘Is immigration a good thing, where we seem to have been able to take advantage of new sources of humanity that are willing to engage in economic activities and be directed by the markets?’ > The world is a hugely better place with our 8 billion people than it was when there were 50 million people kind of like living in caves…

>>The world is a hugely better place

I don't know. We live more, but a longer life can also be miserable.

Re: John Carmack’s ‘Different Path’ to Artificial General Intelligence

#452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> The world is a hugely better place with our 8 billion people than it was when there were 50 million people kind of like living in caves and whatever. There is a theory that hunter-gatherers were much more happier compared to us because they were more in tune with the natural environment, had fewer sources of stress, and were more connected to their community than modern humans. https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan…

They also happily murdered unaffiliated tribes just because. There are tons of trade offs.

> They also happily murdered unaffiliated tribes just because.

We still do it.

Re: John Carmack’s ‘Different Path’ to Artificial General Intelligence

#453
post #214

> Well, you can tie that into a lot of questions, like, ‘Is human population a good thing?’ ‘Is immigration a good thing, where we seem to have been able to take advantage of new sources of humanity that are willing to engage in economic activities and be directed by the markets?’ > The world is a hugely better place with our 8 billion people than it was when there were 50 million people kind of like living in caves…

>> The world is a hugely better place with our 8 billion people than it was when there were 50 million people kind of like living in caves and whatever. There is a theory that hunter-gatherers were much more happier compared to us because they were more in tune with the natural environment, had fewer sources of stress, and were more connected to their community than modern humans. https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan…

Idk... I'm very grateful for modern dentistry...

Re: John Carmack’s ‘Different Path’ to Artificial General Intelligence

#454
post #330

Carmack is clearly a brilliant guy, but it feels like he's fallen into the trap of overfitting on his previous successes and believing they generalise into other domains. No doubt his experience and innovations in computer graphics gives him a good insight into problems in vision, etc. but I don't see anything particularly original or orthogonal in what he's saying with regards to "general AI".

Would you bet on me over Carmack? He obviously has famous engineering chops to have a punchers chance pull this off

AGI is not an engineering problem.

Re: John Carmack’s ‘Different Path’ to Artificial General Intelligence

#455
post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If people could be turned off and back on without harming them (beyond the downtime) doing so without consent would be a very different crime than murder.

Perhaps or perhaps not. Turning off a person for long enough and thus depriving them of the chance to live in their own time with their existing family and friends is comparable to murder. It isn't murder, but it's comparable. At some point Picard in Star Trek says to an alien "We're not qualified to be your judges. We have no law to fit your crime". Turning off a person for a while and then turning them back on? We…

I think I don't agree simply because the irreversibility of murder is so central to it.

For example, if I attack you and injure you so severely that you are hospitalized and in traction for months, but eventually fully recover -- that is a serious crime but it is distinct and less serious than murder.

Turning you off for the same duration would be more like that but without the suffering and potential for lasting physical damage, so I would think that it would be even less serious.

Re: John Carmack’s ‘Different Path’ to Artificial General Intelligence

#456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, there will be ethical problems, but contrary to all those listed (slavery, murder), this one could be solved by a simple line: # from consciousness import *

Sure, once we agree what consciousness is and how it relates to the general intelligence.

If consciousness is just the process of reading the last ~400 milliseconds [1] of stimuli (inside: pain/pleasure/presence; outside: presence only) and the integration of the newly created memory in the short/long-term-memory, and if memory + retro/pre-diction = intelligence, where memory is just a set of words (FELT PAIN, SEEN SUN, etc.) always-ready to be inserted in the prediction loop/imagination engine, it's probably not that hard to isolate a module of consciousness (italicized words to be read with a Minsky-ian smile thinking vision could be solved in a summer).

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N400_(neuroscience)

Re: John Carmack’s ‘Different Path’ to Artificial General Intelligence

#457
post #439
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that a bad thing? Most of those people are a burden to society. Let them pay it down a little. I mean I’d rather they were getting free education and preparing themselves for reintegration into society, but it’s not a perfect world. Prisons in the US are oriented towards punishment and labor can be a part of that. They should be oriented towards rehabilitation.

> Most of those people are a burden to society. This is both extremely dehumanizing and also not true. Forced prison work isn't paying anything back to society. It's lining the pockets of people who are profiting from forced labor.

It is true. Society paid a price from their crimes and then pays an ongoing cost to prosecute and maintain them in prison. It’s a very high cost.

I imagine the underpaid labor goes to reducing that cost either directly or indirectly (if it did not, why would it be allowed.)

Re: John Carmack’s ‘Different Path’ to Artificial General Intelligence

#458

> Now, the smart money still says it’s done by a team of researchers, and it’s cobbled together over all that. But my reasoning on this is: If you take your entire DNA, it’s less than a gigabyte of information. So even your entire human body is not all that much in the instructions, and the brain is this tiny slice of it —like 40 megabytes, and it’s not tightly coded. So, we have our existence proof of humanity: What…

You can’t just say that a human comes from a gigabyte of information. That info is fed into a massively complex physical system, which he is ignoring.

Yes, this is where Carmack's optimism goes awry. He says: "...as soon as you’re at the point where you have the equivalent of a toddler—something that is a being, it’s conscious, it’s not Einstein, it can’t even do multiplication—if you’ve got a creature that can learn, you can interact with and teach it things on some level."

He's wrong. There is currently no practical way to produce a software system that possesses the ability for human thought, reasoning, and motivation without that system possessing uniquely human (let alone organic) properties: the biological and chemical makeup, plus the physical characteristics, of a human, and the ability to process using human senses. (Hint: a neural net processing video images is a mere shadow of how a human processes things with their senses of sight, sound, and touch.)

Carmack thinks humans can be reliably reduced to spherical cows in a vacuum, but that only holds true on paper. A real human being is not merely a meat machine: we are driven largely by emotions and physical desires, none of which exist in a computer except through elaborate simulation thereof.

Now, I'm sure over the next couple of decades we will make huge strides in mimicking a human being's ability to learn, i.e. creating ever more complex LLMs and AI models that act increasingly more humanlike, but they will be nothing but more and more elaborate parlor tricks which, when prodded just the right way, will fail completely, revealing that they were never human at all. They will be like Avatars (from the movie): sophisticated simulacra that rely on elaborate behind-the-scenes support systems, without which they are useless.

Re: John Carmack’s ‘Different Path’ to Artificial General Intelligence

#459
post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> The world is a hugely better place with our 8 billion people than it was when there were 50 million people kind of like living in caves and whatever. There is a theory that hunter-gatherers were much more happier compared to us because they were more in tune with the natural environment, had fewer sources of stress, and were more connected to their community than modern humans. https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan…

Idk... I'm very grateful for modern dentistry...

I have read that North American indigenous people were known for having great teeth. Here is one random citation I found searching for indigenous teeth: https://drscottgraves.com/the-secrets-to-healthy-teeth-from-...

Re: John Carmack’s ‘Different Path’ to Artificial General Intelligence

#460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LLMs haven't "learned" syntax, that's the point. It doesn't matter if you just want to predict syntax (engineering) only if you want to understand the human language faculty (science) and nearly no one is interested in the latter.

The fact that you don't understand how GPT models language does not make it less of a model. It did learn the syntax, you are just incapable to grasp the formula it represents.

> The fact that you don't understand how GPT models language does not make it less of a model. It did learn the syntax, you are just incapable to grasp the formula it represents.

The whole point of science is understanding and LLMs don't provide understanding of how human language works.

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