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The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

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Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#451

Post by matwood »

Scoundreller wrote: post #155
bumby wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a reason why many northern areas (esp. Canada) have diesel trucks that come equipped with a plug-in block heater.

There’s often not-very-visible differences between Canadian and US car models, even base models. Canadian BMWs will all have the “cold weather package”, which for me means heated seats and an H8 battery instead of a smaller H6. For my mom’s old Corolla, it means a 1.6kw starter instead of the 1.4 in the US models (which became a sorta problem when I bought a refurb at a Canadian parts store…)

I lived in the south and moved to Denver for a period. I had a RWD 4-runner at the time and got stuck in snow. The people I knew in Denver had no idea they even sold non-4wd 4-runners...

I'm guessing only FWD/4WD version of vehicles are also sold in Canada.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#452

Post by oblio »

bdcravens wrote: post #306
isityouyesitsme wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, 10 years behind EV. It makes sense that it is where it is. Please point out anywhere where anyone says the accomplishments are not remarkable on their own, if you are not comparing them to the thing with 100 years infra behind it. Now compare that to the seemingly endless number of evangelists who think that 10 years from now is a good time to impose a mandate to kill all new ICE vehicle manufacturing, in spite o…

[flagged]

Are you comparing smartphones driven by corporations with huge infrastructure changes?

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#453

Post by rypskar »

glogla wrote: post #434
tjoff wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely depends on how cold it is? As well as amperage... In Sweden there were lot of reports of people being unable to charge with 230V 10A. Sure, you'd make sure to install a more powerful charger if necessary. But that requires you and everywhere else to be adapted for EVs. Which is a pain.

Is 10A common in Sweden? Around here, every basic socket is rated 230V 16A and even apartments typically have each phase 230V 25A. And then you can go to multiple phases. (Funny thing, this is kind oversized for domestic applications and the driver behind it is that the law says you pay fee based on maximum amperage of your connection, so electricity companies refuse to install anything smaller than 25A and give ever…

At least in Norway cars will limit the charging to 10A when using a normal wall socket instead of a dedicated car charger on a connection with extra protection, I think there are some Eu regulations around that to.

10A circuits was the norm in houses years ago, but now the normal is changed to 16A and one 25A for the stove. We do not have any fee based on the maximum amperage of the circuit, the changes are only demand driven. If you want to put the kettle on and vacuum at the same time you need 16A

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#454

Post by isityouyesitsme »

defrost wrote: post #307
isityouyesitsme wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, so because your state and country is ahead in this area, everyone else is "a hut in Siberia?" My comment specifically mentioned a 2030 or 2035 mandate, which is a US mandate. Why would you argue against a US mandate by talking about Australia? You're not doing the EV group any favors by ignoring the problems people describe that prevent them from buying one, and there is currently no US legislation to enable a…

> because your state and country is ahead in this area, everyone else is "a hut in Siberia?" No. How did arrive at that conclusion? Did you misread the user names and assume I made that comment? > Why would you argue against a US mandate by talking about Australia? You made a statement about other places in the world which was false, I gave an example of why it was false. You are now better informed, you're welcome.

yes, I misread (or more accurately didn't read) user names. Apologies for that.

But no, what I said was not false. I said that I suspect there are other locations in the world where this is true (meaning northern US isn't the only one), and the reply was that there are locations where it isn't true (Australia).

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#455

Post by pedrocr »

rypskar wrote: post #453
glogla wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is 10A common in Sweden? Around here, every basic socket is rated 230V 16A and even apartments typically have each phase 230V 25A. And then you can go to multiple phases. (Funny thing, this is kind oversized for domestic applications and the driver behind it is that the law says you pay fee based on maximum amperage of your connection, so electricity companies refuse to install anything smaller than 25A and give ever…

At least in Norway cars will limit the charging to 10A when using a normal wall socket instead of a dedicated car charger on a connection with extra protection, I think there are some Eu regulations around that to. 10A circuits was the norm in houses years ago, but now the normal is changed to 16A and one 25A for the stove. We do not have any fee based on the maximum amperage of the circuit, the changes are only dema…

Usually it's 13A from a Shucko plug. They're rated for 16A but you're not supposed to run that continuously so it's 13A to be at 80% of maximum for a continuous load.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#456

Post by rad_gruchalski »

nottorp wrote: post #448
rad_gruchalski wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t need to idle the car for 10 minutes to scrape the ice off. You can scrape it off with the engine off.

For the good of the engine maybe. For the good of the driver... when you're finished scraping off it's better inside. Plus the windows kinda warmed up so it's easier to scrape.

Not sure what is the assumption. I have the opportunity to scrape the ice off of the car many times a year.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#457

Post by saiya-jin »

glogla wrote: post #434
tjoff wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely depends on how cold it is? As well as amperage... In Sweden there were lot of reports of people being unable to charge with 230V 10A. Sure, you'd make sure to install a more powerful charger if necessary. But that requires you and everywhere else to be adapted for EVs. Which is a pain.

Is 10A common in Sweden? Around here, every basic socket is rated 230V 16A and even apartments typically have each phase 230V 25A. And then you can go to multiple phases. (Funny thing, this is kind oversized for domestic applications and the driver behind it is that the law says you pay fee based on maximum amperage of your connection, so electricity companies refuse to install anything smaller than 25A and give ever…

Mining all that crap that goes into any EV destroys our planet properly.

If you want to actually help environment, you need to live in cold through the winter by using heating at minimum, you need to use public transport, do adequate sustainable shopping of everything and so on and on. Which hits the general consumerism and comfort western society is so used to like a concrete wall of WWII bunker.

I get why prople want to feel they are not passive when global catastrophe is coming, but just buying EV and saying you have done your part is a fucking bad joke, sorry cant put it in milder terms. Kids in african cobalt, lithium etc mines would object, at least if they could.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#458

Post by lotsofpulp »

glogla wrote: post #445
buran77 wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, how adapting to EVs is a huge pain but LITERALLY DESTROYING THE WORLD THROUGH CLIMATE CHANGE is not, I don't get it. That's a very "you-centric" view of the world. Convenience is convenience, regardless of whether it destroys the world or not, and more money is expected to bring more convenience. So very few people say "I'll suffer this winter so the world is destroyed just a little bit less". That's why they…

> Case in point, you probably get how adapting to public transport is a huge pain but LITERALLY DESTROYING THE WORLD THROUGH CLIMATE CHANGE because you want a personal car is not. Oh for sure. That is why people saying "what about people living in apartments? checkmate, EVs!" annoy me so much - if you live in an apartment you probably don't need a car. But people are used to their comforts, so saying that doesn't win…

> if you live in an apartment you probably don't need a car.

This is not true for anywhere outside a few city centers in the US.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#459

Post by mynameisvlad »

buran77 wrote: post #436
mynameisvlad wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 240V charger, as parent commenter said, more than makes up for whatever losses are inherent in heating the car and battery. I have an uncovered space and it’s fine . Yeah, the battery sucks in the cold, and it takes longer to charge, but realistically it’s not like you need to use your car 24/7. Leaving it for a few hours overnight charges it to full, and you can schedule defrosting or do it from the app so the car…

You're hand waving away a lot of things here. People have the expectation of convenience and the current standard is whatever any regular car can do. When things fall short it can be a major inconvenience or even a deal breaker. > It’s far from “a huge pain”. You name "a huge pain" and someone will disagree. Not having a car at all is far from a huge pain but you still have one, even at a significant price.

What, exactly, is being hand woven away? I’m describing the realities of EV ownership.

My car is always plugged in and therefore always at 80%. It takes a few hours after returning from a trip to charge it back up, regardless of the weather or other conditions, and the car is warmed up by the time I get into it using remote defrosting. In fact, during this snowstorm, my car always was consistently completely defrosted every time.

None of this sounds anywhere even remotely in the same ballpark as “a huge pain”.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#460

Post by isityouyesitsme »

wiretap wrote: post #349
isityouyesitsme wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, so because your state and country is ahead in this area, everyone else is "a hut in Siberia?" My comment specifically mentioned a 2030 or 2035 mandate, which is a US mandate. Why would you argue against a US mandate by talking about Australia? You're not doing the EV group any favors by ignoring the problems people describe that prevent them from buying one, and there is currently no US legislation to enable a…

This is also a mandate in Canada for 2035, and I feel like you are being unfair and a little bit snarky to the other commenter (who didn't make the comment about Siberia). This is actually a larger problem in Canada than the US, and most of the political and policy discussion is in favour of this change.

I am not certain the point of this, tbh.

I am discussing the mentality of the opposition in the US and the reasons they cite where the EV solution does not work for them. If your government is committed to making it work by 2035, that's a different matter. The US government has made no such commitment, they only discuss mandates. All of the pain, none of the gain.

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