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Lab-Grown Meat Is Safe to Eat, FDA Says

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Re: Lab-Grown Meat Is Safe to Eat, FDA Says

#451

Post by kikokikokiko »

jxramos wrote: post #316
kikokikokiko wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Brazil is a continental country, I'm sure you know about it. My family and I come from the southern part, it's basically pampa downn here, a green savana. That's why Argentina, Uruguai and south Brazil are the best places to raise cattle in the world, it's just grass from horizon to horizon. The average HN user is so oblivious to anything other than this idiotic 1st world…

yah, I always had the impression that Brazil was predominantly rain forest. I'm curious what percentage of the country's land mass is deep/tall Amazon rain forest. If we came up with some cheap threshold like at least 10 trees in 100 square meters each at least 10m tall or something, what percentage of Brazil's land mass would satisfy that constraint? I heard of the pampas in Argentina before I think through literatu…

The Amazon is only a thing at the upper third of the country, and rain forest, probably just the western side. I would guess 30% of the land area of Brazil. 100% of the south and north east, 90% costal areas, and 75% of the midwest are NOT rain forests. People don't even seem to know outside of Brazil that the north eastern part is basically a huge savana, with some areas being more like a desert than a savana even.

Re: Lab-Grown Meat Is Safe to Eat, FDA Says

#452

Post by lovich »

hunterb123 wrote: post #342
lovich wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. Grass costs nothing, it's already there and we can't eat it. You have to shred it so it doesn't grow too high anyway. > 2. Again, pastures are already there, nothing else is on them. We’ve gone way beyond pasture just “being there” to rely on for animal agriculture at the rate we do it. Look at BLM grazing rates which are there to pay for renewing the grassland but to rate limit how many animal graze or the gras…

> We’ve gone way beyond pasture just “being there” to rely on for animal agriculture at the rate we do it. Look at BLM grazing rates which are there to pay for renewing the grassland but to rate limit how many animal graze or the grassland would be destroyed. Amazon in Brazil is also being cut back constantly to create new pasture land A large part of America was already grassland. Many other parts the land aren't gr…

>A large part of America was already grassland. Many other parts the land aren't great, but cattle can still graze over it even with really sparse or dry vegetation.

a large part of America was already grassland, but that doesn't mean it can handle infinite herds, hence the BLM grazing fees[1]. This is also ignoring the fact that I was referring to pasture land globally when I included references to the Amazon.

>I'm talking about families raising cattle on their private land and continuing to do so, not about banning shovels, backhoes, or meat.

Private land means nothing when you say "Perfect, that's more jobs". You should talk about how inefficiency is acceptable if it spreads work across more small businesses then, and I will argue with you on that point. I care 0% about family's keeping their small businesses together if it means the rest of us have high prices. If those families take more money to create the same amount of food as a large scale farm, then I give zero shits if they lose the family farm. I would prefer that an enterprise takes over, produces food at a lower cost, and then sells me food at that lower cost due to the competition that capitalism causes.

Could you please explain to me why I should care about the family farm asking for my tax dollars to subsidize them while they complain that my liberal lifestyle is unacceptable and should be prevented by law?

[1]https://www.blm.gov/press-release/blm-and-forest-service-ann...

Re: Lab-Grown Meat Is Safe to Eat, FDA Says

#453

Post by jodrellblank »

roflyear wrote: post #368
jodrellblank wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We give our food water, but it doesn't quench our thirst. We give our food grass, but it doesn't tear up our teeth. Our food has poop in it, but doesn't taste of poop. Is there any evidence that steroids which are digested by a cow linger in its body as an active substance for years, in a large enough quantity to have a steroid effect after going through another creature's digestive system? Isn't obesity rather well…

Quoted post unavailable.

If you think asking you to support your claims is "some kind of weird joke", it isn't. Are you basing your claim on evidence? Then link some.

US cheese consumption has gone up from 20lbs per person-year in 1975 to almost 40lbs per person-year by 2020[1]. Total dairy consumption up to record high levels from below 550lbs per person-year to over 650lbs per person-year milkfat equivalent.

Compared to 1970, Americans average grain eating went from 400 Calories per day to nearly 600. Fats and oils went from ~330 Calories per day to almost 600. Sugars went up, fruit and fruit juices went up. Daily Calorie averages went from eating 2025/day to 2481/day between 1970 and 2010, while beef eating went down.[2]

At the same time "Over the last 50 years in the U.S. we estimate that daily occupation-related energy expenditure has decreased by more than 100 calories, and this reduction in energy expenditure accounts for a significant portion of the increase in mean U.S. body weights for women and men."[3]

At the same time, TV watching went from 4.5hrs/day in 1950 to nearly 8hrs/day in 2018[4].

"Eating more" and "moving less" is a much better explanation for "we wonder why we are fat" than your explanation. No magical

[1] https://www.idfa.org/news/american-dairy-consumption-reaches...

[2] https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/12/13/whats-on-yo...

[3] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3102055/

[4] https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/05/when-...

Re: Lab-Grown Meat Is Safe to Eat, FDA Says

#454

Post by randomdata »

myshpa wrote: post #382
randomdata wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We could rewild huge parts of the Earth Probably not without radically changing how we grow plants for human consumption, assuming we still eat plants and don't move to an all-meat diet. Looking over the data for the area I farm, according to government figures, 36% of the cropland is used for animal food. Most farmers here grow a rotation of soybeans, corn, edible beans, and wheat. The edible beans and wheat are i…

If the world adopted a plant-based diet we would reduce global agricultural land use from 4 to 1 billion hectares https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets Half of the world’s habitable land is used for agriculture ... and 77% of it is used for livestock: meat and dairy https://ourworldindata.org/land-use More than three-quarters (77%) of global soy is fed to livestock for meat and dairy production. Most of the rest…

> Half of the world’s habitable land is used for agriculture ...

While true, we are talking about cropland, not agriculture land (e.g. pastures). Nowhere near 50% of the world's land area is suitable for cropland.

Re: Lab-Grown Meat Is Safe to Eat, FDA Says

#455

Post by pugworthy »

prometheus76 wrote: post #54
pugworthy wrote: post #42

You might argue that people will just eat whatever because they don't care what's in it, but there are definitely boundaries for that in some societies. Case in point, bugs are safe to eat, but people in some cultures just can't even imagine doing so because... bugs! McDonald's Chitin McBuggits will never be a thing.

Bugs carry parasites. Lots and lots of parasites. And parasite eggs. Cultures that eat insects also have high rates of parasitic infections.

FYI I wasn't posting about how good bugs are, I was posting about the negative impression that vat-raised meat can have, which is a bit like the negative impression about bugs.

Your own post is a bit of an example of reactionary posts about foods that somehow "disgust" others with opinion sometimes disguised as research showing all kinds of "problems".

Re: Lab-Grown Meat Is Safe to Eat, FDA Says

#457

Post by 411111111111111 »

wtetzner wrote: post #397
411111111111111 wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's honestly highly unlikely. These animals consume the same products the vegan alternatives are made with... for months or years, depending on the animal. It might be true in places without massive animal farms, but that's usually connected to more human attention which would make it even more unlikely.

> These animals consume the same products the vegan alternatives are made with... How many people are living off of grass?

the quantity of animals is way too high for them to be fed with grass, as that would turn into a logistical nightmare.

It's usually a special feed, which is composed of corn, often bones and other substances.

Re: Lab-Grown Meat Is Safe to Eat, FDA Says

#458

Post by ergocoder »

allemagne wrote: post #405
ergocoder wrote: post #10

The safe thing to do for this kind of things is to wait for others to consume it in mass first. It is not like there is a pressure for you to eat lab grown meats.

So far us guinea pigs seem to be pretty safe from vague concerns around, say, GMOs. I'm pretty open to specific concerns about lab-grown meat, but until then I'm happy to take calculated risks on many things in life.

I'm happy that someone else is willing to go first. It's a win win.

Re: Lab-Grown Meat Is Safe to Eat, FDA Says

#459

Post by Melting_Harps »

reb wrote: post #256
Melting_Harps wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I eat meat, but I think it's fair to say bringing living/feeling/thinking things into existence for the express purpose of being killed and consumed is grim. This feels particularly true if the circumstances they're raised in are horrific, which seems to be pretty common in factory farms. Wouldn't the logical conclusion than be to eat less and higher quality meat? I mean I have worked on Biodynamic farms with lives…

I agree there are a lot of problems with the intersection of food and capitalism, and there's plenty of room for solutions to those problems to just... create new or different problems. That said, I don't think the key issue is "poor practice and animal welfare", it's exchanging another animal's life for a few minutes of personal pleasure and eight-ish hours of energy. With sufficient research, I believe we can free…

> key issue is "poor practice and animal welfare", it's exchanging another animal's life for a few minutes of personal pleasure and eight-ish hours of energy.

This presumes so many things, chief among them that plants are neither alive or intelligent, and I can assure both are not true--plants are incredibly intelligent actually and have mechanisms that we should mimic now that only now we have the capacity to observe and measure them.

My time in tech notwithstanding, I have a background and careers in both the Life sciences and spent time on farms and cooking in kitchens and it became very clear to me at a young age that Life feeds on Life [0].

So long as you live in this physical Universe you have to take in the elements of another living being in order to not die and the best one can do is be considerate and take this responsibility. You can abstract this all you want but the end is that this must take place in order for your body to continue to stay alive.

I'm a total glutton by nature with an incredibly fast metabolism and I have in earlier and darker periods of my life over-indulged in both food and drink, but I soon realized that despite thinking I was 'deserving' of it I felt ill every time as body had been optimized and used to intermittent fasting and nourishment rather than over eating and drinking everyday like it was my last day on Earth.

> With sufficient research, I believe we can free ourselves and other living things from that dynamic without sacrificing the experience and benefits animal products provide, and I'd be happy to live in that future.

See above, but I will add that I have ever since I started to farm and focus on farm-to-table cuisine I formed a deep respect for every meal I eat (plant or animal based), it came at an immense cost (that I think everyone should experience) after having done the back breaking labour to grow and slaughter animals that I then ate or sold in the market(s). I can assure you that what you are advocating for is the fantasy, and most undesirable, aspects of my trans0humanist leanings. When one eats it is more than just input and output, and when we address that way it is no surprise our Western Developed nations are incredibly sick, depressed and despondent and that the 1-2 biggest killers in developed nations are food related (heart disease and diabetes).

> And in the meantime, I agree: eating less meat and favoring producers who treat their animals well is the way to go if avoiding animal products entirely isn't on the table.

I cannot see myself enjoying Life at all if we deny that food is and has been the reason why our very constitution as Homo Sapiens has pushed us this far along the evolution scale; such that we have tamed and evolved alongside with dogs, ventured and conquered this planet and sadly have gone to war with our very own (eg salt wars) in order to be able to feed ourselves and our tribes. I refuse to see how we wouldn't lose a very fundamental part of our psyche and the Human experience if we lost this and to be honest I'd be the first to resist that: given how lonely and depressed became when COVID struck and they couldn't go to their favorite restaurants and longed so much for those days that they would even risk getting sick in order to return speaks volumes: also worth noting is that despite front line workers like doctors and nurses being so exposed to COVID patients, even without PPE, it was cooks, farm workers and meat processors who had the highest number of deaths [1] in the US!

Putting on my pedantic hat on: Having done all 3 at some stage of my culinary career it has long been taken for granted the sacrifice and risk some of us have and will continue to go through in order to fulfill this vital role in Society; I just wish most would take it more serious and see how fundamental it is the Human Condition and a part I would be despondent if it ever went away.

0: https://allpoetry.com/poem/14460785-Life-feeds-on-life-by-De...

1: https://qz.com/1962493/a-new-study-shows-occupations-with-th...

Re: Lab-Grown Meat Is Safe to Eat, FDA Says

#460

Post by myshpa »

randomdata wrote: post #454
myshpa wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the world adopted a plant-based diet we would reduce global agricultural land use from 4 to 1 billion hectares https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets Half of the world’s habitable land is used for agriculture ... and 77% of it is used for livestock: meat and dairy https://ourworldindata.org/land-use More than three-quarters (77%) of global soy is fed to livestock for meat and dairy production. Most of the rest…

> Half of the world’s habitable land is used for agriculture ... While true, we are talking about cropland , not agriculture land (e.g. pastures). Nowhere near 50% of the world's land area is suitable for cropland.

Yes, it is ... simply deforest more land for our animals ... we could fatten ourselves so much more ;)

https://ourworldindata.org/land-use

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