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An X11 apologist tries Wayland

artemis.sh

451–453 of 453 posts

Re: An X11 apologist tries Wayland

#451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The goal is to not suck. But "suck" is some subjective thing, you will find a giant number of GNOME fans that will tell you how great GNOME is, how intuitive it is, and how you just need to give up your own preferences and embrace their UX guru ideas and it will not suck. It seems that many people are in the "I don't want to think for myself camp" . unfortunately people in my family are also in that camp, never ques…

You shouldn't need to "think for yourself" as a prerequisite to have usable tools. Your thinking energy is much better spent solving original problems or channeling your creativity. Personally - I think KDE 3.5 (yes I'm that old) was near perfect. As of 4.x, they were prioritising adding the ability to freely hand-rotate desktop widgets (who the actual f8ck wants a skewed widget!?) over performance and stability. I c…

>You shouldn't need to "think for yourself" as a prerequisite to have usable tools

This is not true, we are not all the same. For example my eyes are bad, and one is worse, so I prefer one side of the screen more, I want to put my important stuff like notifications on my good side, I do not need a pretend UX guru to tell me how to have my notifications and hard code them. I also prefer to change the keyboard layout around so I can do most used keyboard shortcuts comfortable with just my left hand. I don't care that the majority things the keyboard layout should look like, I am more comfortable in my way where a GNOME user will not even consider that it could be possible to customize the keyboard layout or change keyboard shortcuts, some big ego dude decided for them.

Let's assume you are right and defaults could be good for 99% but IMO are great only for 40%, I want great, not good or OK, but I don't want to force my preference on others , just wish others won't remove functionality because it is used by less then 50%.

EDIT: I think I might have misunderstood your point and my reply was offtopic, I assume that GNOME big EGO designer checks the touchspeed setting on his laptop, decides what is best for him and hardcodes it in, in their mind GNOME is usable and if you somehow disagree they will tell you to move on, they will never admit anything, they want to push out all the people that disagree with their vision and keep only the ones on the exact sam page with them on all the possible points.

Re: An X11 apologist tries Wayland

#452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at this very statement it's completely inaccurate in a trivial fashion that ought not required analysis but here we are. The people who actually develop x or wayland are a tiny number of people. The people expressing opinions on the internet on tech is 1000x larger. The implications that the proponents are correct in their analysis because they develop it is fatally flawed if for no other reason than the subject…

You can make all the arguments you want but it won't do anything meaningful. If those 1000x people expressing opinions have the necessary domain expertise, and aren't just tossing out their feelings on what they think might be cool or might be nice in a perfect world, then they should start contributing to these projects and fixing the bugs. I mean, I think it would be cool if my PC never crashed. Isn't it easy and f…

PCs running either Windows 10 or Linux with appropriate quality software and hardware almost never crash now so wish virtually granted I guess.

Re: An X11 apologist tries Wayland

#453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love GNOME (and currently still use it), but the project really has been taking a turn for the worse. If you want to do something even slightly off the happy path, GNOME is the worst Wayland experience. Because of ideology (and in the name of security), they refuse to implement features and extensions that users and app devs need. Example: No support for server side decorations. Instead, their solution is to force…

But GNOME has zero reason to implement server side decorations in Wayland. All GNOME apps use client side decorations and have done so for years. The other major toolkits (Qt and Electron) have also added support for client side decorations. Legacy X apps are still able to use the X decorations. The only thing left is apps that were broken in Wayland in the first place.

Client side decorations are fine, but removing the option of server side decorations from app developers is stupid IMO. KDE and wlroots have this functionality.

Practically, for small apps that don't really have their own style (or games that are just one big opengl window) it's much better to rely on the window manager to provide a titlebar that somewhat fit in with the rest of the system. This is what users expect when coming from Windows or macOS.

Instead, apps like kitty just provide a godawful stopgap titlebar for GNOME users, because implementing good CSD is outside the scope of the project.

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