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Apple warns suppliers to follow China rules on 'Taiwan' labeling

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Re: Apple warns suppliers to follow China rules on 'Taiwan' labeling

#452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting examples. How'd they work out? More disposable bottles and fossil fuels are sold now than ever before. You can still buy cigarettes, and they're still as poisonous and addictive as ever, but most people don't want to buy them anymore. Public policy worked in 0/3 cases. Changing consumer behavior worked in 1/3.

Those weren’t public policies, they were marketing campaigns to divert away from reasonable public policy solutions.

They were also public policy goals that were not solved by public policy solutions.

Re: Apple warns suppliers to follow China rules on 'Taiwan' labeling

#453
post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how’s China different here? Or do you really believe there are no conflicting opinions there? I mean, some people believe there are no public elections in China, so…

Are we really doing this? Are you really serious? Besides the fact that most of the country is firewalled off from foreign media, and besides the fact that only one political party is allowed, and besides the fact that political prisoners are routinely jailed for nothing more than denying a government narrative, holding mock polls, publishing or assembling (and I don't mean held for a day or two like in the West, but…

>Are we really doing this? Are you really serious?

See, there's your problem: when you realise facts don't match your beliefs, you start "are we really" instead of reconsidering those beliefs.

>Besides the fact that most of the country is firewalled off from foreign media

Foreign media is easily accessible in China using VPN. Meanwhile, Chinese (or non-western in general) media is pretty much entirely unknown in US. It's largely because of language barrier, but not only that.

>and besides the fact that only one political party is allowed

Only until you realise that party is something entirely different from what we in the West call parties. But even if it was similar, it wouldn't be much worse than the American system, where you have two parties that are very closely related and sponsored by the same corporations.

>and besides the fact that political prisoners are routinely jailed for nothing more than denying a government narrative

In US people are routinely killed on the street for nothing more than being black. Seriously though, do you really believe there's no political discourse in China?

>and I don't mean held for a day or two like in the West, but jailed for years

In US you can get jailed for years for literally nothing, simply because it's less risky to give up and go to jail for a shorter sentence than prove your innocence, and prosecutors abuse this all the time. Or for any minor infraction because the three strikes law, which was literally created to get as many people into jails as possible. And let's not forget the forced labor.

>Yes, US citizens can publicly call for the highest level politicians in the land to lose their jobs, and with no real repercussions.

... to those politicians. That's the point: in US you are allowed to say whatever you want, because it doesn't matter; the election system is already rigged, everyone knows that it's not the majority choice that wins elections, and nobody cares - because nobody can do anything about it. Compare this to China, where government officials can actually get convicted and jailed. Chinese prime minister responsible for Tienanmen spent the rest of his life in house arrest. American officials responsible for Kent State shootings, or for the bombing a city block, killing a number of random kids and shooting at survivors, which name escapes me - nobody got prosecuted.

>But Weibo, Wechat, Bilibili, Douyin, frequently censor even the most milquetoast sarcastic remarks about the CCP or Xi

[citation needed]

>Can a famous Chinese public individual/celebrity/intellectual, in China, tell a huge crowd and media, that I think the CCP are horrible and that Xi Jinping needs to be booted from power?

Can a famous US public individual, in US, tell a huge crowd and media that they believe US supreme court and Senate need to be booted from power?

>Sure, where the CCP select and approve the candidates, control the election progress

Exactly like in US; the party nominates various public officials who oversee the elections, not to mention gerrymandering.

>And no direct nationwide elections.

Just like US presidential elections. Although I'm not sure if in China it's legal to corrupt electors; in US it is and it has already happened in the past.

>Think anything will change? I don't.

So, here's the thing: things do change, all the time. If you actually read anything about Chinese political system, you'd noticed that the "old" communist party, the one which stood for Cultural Revolution, has been delegalised. China wouldn't be able to develop order of magnitude faster than US without changes to law. Meanwhile in US you can still land in prison for life just because you're out of luck.

>There's practical no competing, transparent system in these so called 'democratic elections' making them in effort

And here we go again, Americans believing there is no political discourse in other countries, and at the same pretending with straight face that the US is a functional democracy.

>Meanwhile, there are 100+ CCP members in the Congress who are billionaires.

Thank you, that's interesting. Source?

>For all of the flaws in the Western systems, and there are a vast number, it is really tiring seeing tankies try to say "everything's the same" with zero nuance, as if none of it matters.

See, here's the thing: I do understand your point; it was my point of view for the past two decades. Until I realised it just doesn't match observable reality. What you are describing is just prejudice; a colonial mindset based on a combination of racism and ignorance, which is what American exceptionalism boils down to.

Also, we're not talking about "Western systems"; there are many western countries that are proper democracies. But US is not one of them. It's a pseudo-democracy, like China, except it serves corporations, not people. That's why the quality of life in US is dropping, while in China it's skyrocketing. Ever wondered why Americans get so surprised whenever some Chinese oligarch gets into trouble? Or how comes an American court can let a convicted pedophile free because "he wouldn't feel good in a jail", assuming of course he's wealthy enough?

Re: Apple warns suppliers to follow China rules on 'Taiwan' labeling

#454
post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand what you're saying, but let's see the other side: I -- like many others in tech and even in HN -- don't live in the US, and don't have any obligations towards the democratic system they have over there, or their government, just like the US has been historically a mixed bag towards us Latin Americans, often undermining our own democratic institutions when they weren't aligned with Washington or various A…

I suppose it is a bit of a "mind your own damn business" thing of me to have said it that way, but for what it's worth (and as embarrassing as it may be, considering it's various low ratings compared to it's "middle power" brethren) the US is still barely hanging on to the torch for anti-authoriarian poster child duties, and is easily the biggest obstacle for some other large powers that appear to have an even less s…

I will say one thing: I really appreciate you replying to me politely and keeping this civil. I understand this is a sensitive topic and I appreciate being able to discuss it, and even disagree, without this turning into a flamewar.

Re: Apple warns suppliers to follow China rules on 'Taiwan' labeling

#455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those weren’t public policies, they were marketing campaigns to divert away from reasonable public policy solutions.

They were also public policy goals that were not solved by public policy solutions.

No one here claimed that every problem has been solved by public policy.

Re: Apple warns suppliers to follow China rules on 'Taiwan' labeling

#456
post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we really doing this? Are you really serious? Besides the fact that most of the country is firewalled off from foreign media, and besides the fact that only one political party is allowed, and besides the fact that political prisoners are routinely jailed for nothing more than denying a government narrative, holding mock polls, publishing or assembling (and I don't mean held for a day or two like in the West, but…

>Are we really doing this? Are you really serious? See, there's your problem: when you realise facts don't match your beliefs, you start "are we really" instead of reconsidering those beliefs. >Besides the fact that most of the country is firewalled off from foreign media Foreign media is easily accessible in China using VPN. Meanwhile, Chinese (or non-western in general) media is pretty much entirely unknown in US.…

This is trolling. You are purposefully answering beside the point or using false comparisons.

Example: * china is firewalled off * you: oh but there’s VPN.

you are really impacting the quality of the discussion, I would love to understand why you’re dining this though. Bored or do you have an agenda?

Re: Apple warns suppliers to follow China rules on 'Taiwan' labeling

#457
post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't you required to turn in your expired passport to get a new one, or report it as lost .

When renewing, the US returns the original passport with holes punched through it.

Yep, my old passport has a hole punch, and that's part of it's charm.

Re: Apple warns suppliers to follow China rules on 'Taiwan' labeling

#458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were also public policy goals that were not solved by public policy solutions.

No one here claimed that every problem has been solved by public policy.

You suggested that personal choice was just a distraction from policy-making, but one of your own examples, cigarettes, shows otherwise.

Personal choice works.

Re: Apple warns suppliers to follow China rules on 'Taiwan' labeling

#459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China has the second largest military spending in the world, second only to the US. What's more, you really need to look at purchasing power parity (PPP). Basically, it costs less to do things in China, and that really matters for military spending. For example, soldiers in the Chinese People’s Liberation Army (PLA) receive far lower salaries than the equivalent US personnel. It's hard to figure out the true impact o…

I'm not sure the past ten months have been the greatest time for the argument that Russia gets almost a third of the US's military value after adjusting for PPP.

It's the data I had easily available.

While the amount of spending money has an effect, wisely spending the money pre-war and wisely executing war plans is obviously critical. Russia is demonstrating the weakness from widespread corruption (they got stuck on roads because they did not invest in logistics and on maintaining their vehicles), combined with spectacularly poor planning in the initial attack. It would be unwise to assume China will make such mistakes.

Anyway, it is my hope that war does not break out. The one guarantee about war is many deaths.

Re: Apple warns suppliers to follow China rules on 'Taiwan' labeling

#460
post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how it is sad. The One China Policy is simultaneously amicable with the PRC and ROC constitutions. They both claim One China and the United States acknowledges that there is One China, but the United States makes no claims no preference for either government in resolving the Taiwanese straight conflict as it is a civil war.

What you're missing is that "One China" is now a mere diplomatic fiction. The only reason the US and Taiwan insist on it is to avoid unnecessary escalation with China. But, as a matter of fact, Taiwan is a completely independent, sovereign and autonomous state, over which China has absolutely no legal or practical control.

That's true, but as far as the world is concerned, Taiwan is de jure part of the One and only China, which is the PRC as of now. And of course the PRC has zero desire to recognise the fact that Taiwan is an independent country. So the status quo here, same as the one between the Koreas, is basically the only way things can remain peaceful until some drastic change happens (e.g. the PRC falling).
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