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EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

consilium.europa.eu

451–460 of 1001 posts

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Users will just elect not to do that if they want to benefit from your curation.

The selling point for this theoretical device is that, even if someone steals your passcode, it can’t be hacked. This enabled evil maid (or customs processors, nation-state agencies, etc) attacks on the most vulnerable users looking to have defense-in-depth. To avoid this it seems you’d either be forced to sell it at an insane markup (to avoid having too many users) or means test people to make sure they don’t purcha…

Easy, do it like android. In (some) android devices you can unlock the bootloader. But doing so will inevitably wipe out the device.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#452

This is easily one of the most expansive Acts regarding computing devices passed in my lifetime. The summary is in the link. As an iPhone user, this will enable me to: * Install any software * Install any App Store and choose to make it default * Use third party payment providers and choose to make them default * Use any voice assistant and choose to make it default * User any browser and browser engine and choose to…

iPhones are now shipped with FreeDOS. Optional iOS is available separately.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#453
post #90

What's the plan for enforcing it? Did the United States sign off on it? In my opinion they need the US buy-in, and there actually need to be criminal penalties enforced against top executives (jail time) and the other executives need to see it happen. Unless they do that stuff it seems like they may really try to ignore and delay and do the absolute minimum effort.

If it comes so far (which I really doubt) as them simply ignoring it, their European Operations can be fined (directly through their bank accounts if need be) or their European employees can be jailed.

They can also be disallowed to do business with European consumers and companies.

In short: "The fines will continue until compliance improves. Get in line or get out of the market".

They don't have much political leverage, given how few people they employ and how little taxes they pay over here.

Their standing in the US isn't the best either so it's doubtful whether America is willing to invest much political capital over something she herself is considering.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#454
post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering these giants pay very little tax and employ very small numbers in the European tech sector, "there is way" indeed.

They pay so little tax exactly because they’re US behemoths. Again, the EU has a very weak hand in here, it’s not like these decisions are implemented in a vacuum.

> Again, the EU has a very weak hand in here

I wonder why all these megacorps have had to change their data-handling procedure and now ask you for consent to tracking cookies... oh wait

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#455

This is easily one of the most expansive Acts regarding computing devices passed in my lifetime. The summary is in the link. As an iPhone user, this will enable me to: * Install any software * Install any App Store and choose to make it default * Use third party payment providers and choose to make them default * Use any voice assistant and choose to make it default * User any browser and browser engine and choose to…

If this is an accurate description of the regulation, I can help but feel they brought it on themselves but closing the garden so hard. These were normal computing options before iPhone/Android took over.

Does it break any privacy/digital-dignity protections though?

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also starts to bother me quite a bit when we go from treating everyone equal before the law to creating certain requirements based on other factors. Further it seems more like a moat to keep anyone else from getting as big as these "digital gatekeepers" are as suddenly when you get to a certain size you have an enormous expense. If these companies really are that large that they have to get special laws for them i…

> It also starts to bother me quite a bit when we go from treating everyone equal before the law to creating certain requirements based on other factors. Like tax brackets? Treating big things exactly the same as small things seems ideological, not rational.

This is the core of the issue.

I have no recourse against Big Tech scamming me. They are an oligopoly sharing the same anti-consumer practices.

But if I regularly buy something from a friend, maybe I'm a 10th of their customer base.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#457

This is easily one of the most expansive Acts regarding computing devices passed in my lifetime. The summary is in the link. As an iPhone user, this will enable me to: * Install any software * Install any App Store and choose to make it default * Use third party payment providers and choose to make them default * Use any voice assistant and choose to make it default * User any browser and browser engine and choose to…

Have you read it? Do you have any info on how the vendors can react to these changes in terms of policy? Like is there anything that disallow apple to offer post-sales support / warranty in case you install any software / app store? etc?

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#458
post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I am in the camp of apple allowing side-loading, i am not a fan of monopolistic regulations like this. It opens all kind of questions, like 1. What devices have to comply? 2. Who decides what device has to comply? Should playstation open their system too. What about a niche bank transaction signing device that internally uses an android capable hardware. Is this illegal now? 3. What about a car infotainment sys…

I very much welcome this legislation (and I use an iPhone). How would you approach this otherwise? The EU probably can't break up Google or Apple (how would this even look like?) and the walled gardens are clearly a market failure, including apples fat margins. You mention details, but regulation can be well made and just continuing the status quo is also bad. All regulations open up questions but it's not the wild w…

> the walled gardens are clearly a market failure

I wouldn't call it a market failure, there's plenty of benefits with wall gardens and it's not done solely for profit. BUT there's also drawbacks and places where walls don't make sense.

Not being able to install arbitrary apps from various app stores provides security, UX consistency, and stability of the software. But there's also drawbacks for things like privacy or abusive censorship or copyright policies.

Given the benefits/drawbacks, the best solution is to have options in the marketplace. If you prefer having more control, don't mind sacrificing deep horizontal product integration, or doing the leg work to make it ideal (doesn't need to always 'just work' predictably), etc, then you should have the option to use an OS/device that offers that.

Personally I'd rather see Google make Android more flexible (for ex: making Google Play Services less restrictive) rather than forcing every OS to be like Android.

But I'm not sure how that could be done via restrictive policy without throwing the baby out with the bath water (other than targeting monopolistic behavior like preventing choice in browsers). Otherwise taking a more-freedom approach would be best, maybe by investing in open platforms, investing in public relations campaigns to make people understand why lack of choice is bad or a consumer-friendly 'open platform' label to guide shoppers, incentives like small tax breaks for offering more open platforms, etc.

For Apple, they could offer a stripped down iOS (like a server edition of a desktop) without all of the services and side-loading restrictions, without having to ditch the current approach that people like.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#459
post #340
post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Safari is a garbage browser. Why is it good that people are forced to use a bad browser?

What makes Safari a bad browser? Sometimes it feels like dev forums rate a browser entirely based on the dev tools. For the average user Safari behaves identically or slightly better (battery life, privacy defaults, integration with the OS for login and payments) then chrome and Firefox.

Extensions are garbage (tapermonkey specifically), it requires multiple redirects instead of allowing third party cookies which increases latency.

NB: This is just the desktop version. The mobile version has been more or less fine for me.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#460
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this potentially breaking apple's walled garden? I wonder wether they will comply at all. Besides, I'm glad to see interoperability mentioned there, perhaps one day we could text from one messenger to another one without being held back by the owner.

> Besides, I'm glad to see interoperability mentioned there, perhaps one day we could text from one messenger to another one without being held back by the owner. By forcing message passing platforms to submit to sharing private encryption keys? And that interoperability entailing the possibility of passing messages to government eavesdropping schemes? Sounds like a utopian paradise!

Take a look at OMEMO (Signal encryption protocol for the XMPP internet standard). Interoperability and E2EE are not exclusive at all.
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