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IBM's Asshole Test

johnpublic.mataroa.blog

451–460 of 604 posts

Re: IBM's Asshole Test

#451
post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those aren't "extra dollar bills in your wallet" any more than a tax refund is. You still paid, you just paid less. In the case where you didn't go back, you'd have had even more "extra dollar bills in your wallet." An (absolute, not relative) reward for good behavior — i.e. a positive-ROI outcome for doing the right thing, vs. not doing the right thing — would be, for example, if you came back and told them you didn…

Is it accurate to say your argument is that stealing something costs less than what happened? Because I’m having trouble understanding your point.

Accidentally stealing something where you don't realize that you stole it, and the store doesn't realize that you stole it, costs less than what happened. In terms of net global utility, even taking into account that your sense of morality has utility to you, it costs less. So this isn't a good example of "good behavior being rewarded" (i.e. having a net-positive outcome in global utility.)

To be clear, theft isn't theft (legally or ethically) without mens rea — if you accidentally walk out of a store with something, you haven't done anything wrong.

And if you later realize you now have possession of the thing, that doesn't mean you're suddenly guilty of theft, either. Theft is an act requiring mens rea, not a state of someone who possesses something that was at some point illegitimately dispossessed from its owner. (If the latter was true, then most people who buy anything from pawn shops would be guilty of theft, because those things were often stolen from someone at some point.)

You might, separately, see there being positive ethical value in returning an item to its owner; but this ethical value should be considered independently from the ethical cost of having stolen (or not stolen) the thing. If you think there's positive ethical value in returning things to their owners, then you'd likely feel an ethical impoetus to e.g. "steal" stolen bicycles from those piles you see on the front yards of flop houses, and bring them back to the people who own them. (Even though those people have probably bought new bicycles already, and won't know what to do with the returned ones. Even though the stolen pile of bicycles is likely just a pile of rust due to lack of maintenance.)

Re: IBM's Asshole Test

#452
post #67

Decades ago, in the days before uber, my employer would fly in candidates from college campuses as part of an onsite interview. The candidate would fly in the night before and we relied on a taxi service to bring the candidate to the hotel. Then in the morning the same service would bring them to the onsite and of course bring them back to the airport at the end. It was a whole curated process. Little did the candida…

I have seen several stories like this - the janitor, or secretary, or whoever is actually a trusted individual who is the true judge of character. To me, it seems implausible, more of a "feel good" story, but it also seems ill advised. Does the driver know he's part of the loop? Does the driver attend the debrief? Does the driver distinguish between great, normal, sub-normal, and bad social skills? What portion of je…

Hiring is imperfect, and doesn't involve anything bordering on "objective truth".

Re: IBM's Asshole Test

#453
post #67

Decades ago, in the days before uber, my employer would fly in candidates from college campuses as part of an onsite interview. The candidate would fly in the night before and we relied on a taxi service to bring the candidate to the hotel. Then in the morning the same service would bring them to the onsite and of course bring them back to the airport at the end. It was a whole curated process. Little did the candida…

There's a saying among musicians: "Be careful of how you treat the people you meet on your way up, because you'll meet them again on your way down."

yep, from little feat: https://youtu.be/PE5Ve0y0m1Y

Re: IBM's Asshole Test

#454
post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it accurate to say your argument is that stealing something costs less than what happened? Because I’m having trouble understanding your point.

Accidentally stealing something where you don't realize that you stole it, and the store doesn't realize that you stole it, costs less than what happened. In terms of net global utility, even taking into account that your sense of morality has utility to you, it costs less. So this isn't a good example of "good behavior being rewarded" (i.e. having a net-positive outcome in global utility.) To be clear, theft isn't t…

Once I realized it was in my pocket, it wouldn’t have been accidental theft. Not returning to pay for it would be deliberate theft. Geez.

Re: IBM's Asshole Test

#455

When I interviewed at Google in 2006, one of the interviewers asked me to write code for solving a particular problem. I replied along the lines of "ok I need to think about this, it's not obvious how to solve it" and started thinking. Time ticked away. Five minutes. Ten minutes. Fifteen minutes. The interviewer started reminding me that he needed me to write some code and if there wasn't anything for him to copy dow…

I interviewed with Google once around the same time frame. The position I interviewed for was something along the lines of datacenter operations. I did my interview from a local Google sales office and interviewed with three other employees via video call. This was around the time that Skype was fairly new, but whatever software they were using was clearly internal to Google. Anyway, I ended up talking with 3 enginee…

[deleted]

Re: IBM's Asshole Test

#456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The taxi driver is going to text or email HR or the hiring manager or someone? That would be indeed implausible. But not every transaction happens between undeferentiated cogs. A specific person organises the interview logistics from the company. Let’s call him Joe. When they agree with a candidate on an interview date Joe picks up the phone and calls the hotel to book a room. After that Joe calls George the truste…

Since you asked, I find a few things implausible about your story. First, taxi drivers typically work with dispatchers. They aren't scheduling their own calls or schedules - because they are busy driving. Second, in the world of "decades ago" we are pre-smartphone. How, exactly, are you going to call up the taxi driver for a chat? And don't you think the taxi driver is going to notice that he has to take a call from…

About the trusted taxi driver, you would be surprised.

Many years ago, in the days before Uber and Lyft, I lived in an apartment complex in Campbell, CA. There was a nice Ethiopian family a couple of units over from me. I would often smell the delicious food they were cooking, and they probably smelled the coffee I would roast in my Gene Cafe. I mostly roasted dry process Ethiopian coffees (and still do).

When I had a minor medical procedure scheduled that would require light sedation, I thought to myself, "I need a way to get there and back." I was going to call a regular taxi, and then I realized I'd been seeing this Green Cab parked in our lot a couple of spots over from mine.

I had a feeling it might be one of my neighbors, because I'd often seen Ethiopians driving Green Cabs.

So I left a note under the windshield wiper: "Hi neighbor! I see you drive a cab. Would you happen to be available on such-and-such a date and time to drive me over to San Jose and then back a couple of hours later?

He called, we made arrangements, and we sure had a lot to talk about between Ethiopian coffee and food and life in general.

You never know what kind of connection you may make with someone who is "just a taxi driver."

Re: IBM's Asshole Test

#457
post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accidentally stealing something where you don't realize that you stole it, and the store doesn't realize that you stole it, costs less than what happened. In terms of net global utility, even taking into account that your sense of morality has utility to you, it costs less. So this isn't a good example of "good behavior being rewarded" (i.e. having a net-positive outcome in global utility.) To be clear, theft isn't t…

Once I realized it was in my pocket, it wouldn’t have been accidental theft. Not returning to pay for it would be deliberate theft. Geez.

You're falsely generalizing your specific situation into a full proof for a general ethical policy, though.

What if, instead of the same day, it had been the next day when you noticed you now had the drill bit, long after you brought it home? Would you still think you had an imperative to return it? Would it still feel like deliberate theft?

How about if you didn't notice that you had it, and it fell out of your pocket at some point on your way home, and then you realized the next day that that had happened? Would you feel an ethical wrongness that could only be righted by retracing your steps to find the store's lost drill bit, so it could be returned? Or would you accept this as just a series of accidents with neutral ethical value — like e.g. goods being damaged in shipping?

What if, instead of a drill bit, you found after you walked out of the store that you had a $5 bill stuck to your shoe? Would you feel the need to walk back inside and ask who lost the $5 bill?

Re: IBM's Asshole Test

#458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I'm sitting here wondering how people have bad interactions with flight attendants? Literally 90% of the words I say to them are: Hello, how are you. Thank you. Yes, water please. Have a good day. I think I asked once for a pillow (usually on Redeyes they hand them out) I've never had a fight attendant decline my request, or complain about it...

I had a flight attendant admonish me for being out of my seat when the fasten seatbelt light was on. But honestly, she was right: it was way too turbulent and my butt ought to have been in a seat. Problem was that nature was calling and the turbulence seemed interminable, and wasn't helping with the nature's call part. (I ended up taking a seat in the rear for a bit & riding it out until a slightly smoother portion.…

Stowing large electronic items (bigger than a cell phone) is a safety requirement, and it’s likely that flight attendants have much less leeway in safety requirements than other aspects of the job.

(Please note that I’m not arguing that’s it’s a reasonable requirement, just that FAs likely don’t have the authority to ignore violations.)

Re: IBM's Asshole Test

#459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I interviewed with Google once around the same time frame. The position I interviewed for was something along the lines of datacenter operations. I did my interview from a local Google sales office and interviewed with three other employees via video call. This was around the time that Skype was fairly new, but whatever software they were using was clearly internal to Google. Anyway, I ended up talking with 3 enginee…

so, what was the answer, from the lecture? what had you missed? Realistically if i was in datacenter ops and a server wouldn't boot i'd unrack it and rack a new one and let the dev/ops whatever team reprovision. Heck, i did this when i was just a cloud engineer, unracked from a local (non-cloud) facility and brought back machines to the office, to be RMA'd, just to help out. I get the idea that the interviewer had a…

Yes, exactly. If quick obvious troubleshooting isn't making progress immediately, then unrack it is the smart real-world answer, which is different from the fantasy interview-world answer.

A service outage can be a lot more expensive than new hardware costs. The team can troubleshoot the hardware later, offline, when they have time.

Re: IBM's Asshole Test

#460

We used to have a very basic C whiteboard test for junior devs. Super simple "find the bugs" test. The best technical performance I ever saw was a guy that walked up to the board, swiped with the marker to mark the bugs like he was swatting flies (found every bug correctly). He finished the test in maybe 10 seconds, where typical was five minutes or more. He sat down in a huff. I didn't know we had an asshole test un…

how can you possibly know how effective someone is to work with after 10 seconds and watching them sit down? what kind of confidence interval can you assign to this test?

It's not how about effective it is, but how pleasant. Money quote is "He sat down in a huff."
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