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What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

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Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#451

Post by pempem »

lazide wrote: post #450
masonic wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet you don't see that "gopher" / shopping jobs are alive and well in the very service workers you use today (Uber/eats, "items shipped to your door", etc.)

I think you’re making my point for me?

I hear you on 'always' and say - while strenuously protesting that I am not a luddite - that many jobs required apprenticeship. Some in the US still do and in places like Japan its a requirement. In France you can still make a living as a butcher and if the Great Pottery Throwdown is to be believed you can be a successful scrub nurse or elder care manager in the UK and still own a home and have the wherewithal to be a fantastic potter, in a home pottery studio. (that last bit is tongue in cheek).

Capitalists gonna capitalist.

But they are limited to differing degrees due to policy. Our current state isn't inevitable.

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#452

Post by lazide »

hakfoo wrote: post #449
lazide wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Within a specific, ideal job they always wanted and got without having to make hard tradeoffs somewhere, or do a ton of searching? This is what folks are talking about. Expecting things to just fall into place 'just because' without having to do the legwork to actually make/find something workable.

It's an entirely solvable problem at the data level. We know where the employers and residential zones are. We could put together a model to minimize average commute time. The problem is that we need to have a grand "rehoming" moment to deliver it. The day where everyone gets assigned a new residence in accordance with the optimization scheme. A day that would doubtless be deferred to long past the heat-death of the…

100% agree. Most cities in the US (not just SF, but definitely SF) are locked in this bizarre ‘you can’t make it better because you’d stub my toe’ mode that enforces stasis. SF in particular is in this bizarre Byzantine political deadlock where it seems the only thing the city is allowing itself to do is stuff that it knows doesn’t work.

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#453

Post by lazide »

pempem wrote: post #451
lazide wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’re making my point for me?

I hear you on 'always' and say - while strenuously protesting that I am not a luddite - that many jobs required apprenticeship. Some in the US still do and in places like Japan its a requirement. In France you can still make a living as a butcher and if the Great Pottery Throwdown is to be believed you can be a successful scrub nurse or elder care manager in the UK and still own a home and have the wherewithal to be…

Statutorily for sure. Most don’t require apprenticeships as a part of the job/role fundamentally though. Electricians (classic apprenticeship setup there) for instance could be made through formal trade school + probationary period, and it would likely be even better than it is now. If it works, it works though.

Generally, It’s a means of locking in stasis in a particular field in general, or restricting competition to the ‘have’s’, just like the old Guild setup before that. Still very much a thing for MD’s in the US.

There is a reason why France in particular is notorious for not getting anything done.

German’s do it too of course, but in their own way which is focused more on results, so it tends to be less sclerotic and more productive.

It’s always a trade off - more protectionism, or more churn/chaos/competition. If they can provide good labor protections while maintaining economic growth enough to ‘lift the tide’ overall, hard to fault them. It’s easy to go so far that it strangles the economy and locks everyone into a pointlessly inefficient setup in favor of the protected classes though. (And they won’t necessarily be rich protected classes either).

Europe’s tide hasn’t been rising very rapidly for awhile, and many EU countries are clearly insolvent overall (Greece, Italy, etc), so we’ll see how long they can sustain it.

And housing wise - to be somewhat on topic - very unlikely those Nurses in the UK are doing so in London.

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#454

Post by impjohn »

jxub wrote: post #277
robertlagrant wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That salary seems very low, other than maybe for a junior. And even then - maybe. What sort of company pays that in 2022?

Anywhere in Southern or Eastern Europe that’s pretty much always the case.

I can attest to this

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#455

Post by tluyben2 »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #216
tluyben2 wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How? If you can travel back and forth and that makes it work, what is the problem? You can hate it, sure, but, at least where I live, people commute 3+ hours/day to make a nice living while living cheap. What is wrong with that?

The increase in the world’s entropy is not priced into the commuting costs, so it is artificially cheap living. Assuming an inhabitable planet with clean air and water is a goal, then commuting 3 hours would not be cheap.

You are right, but you can stimulate wfh and stimulate companies to spread out more. The fact a lot of people are against that (including here on HN) shows that it's all great, but not in my backyard.

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#456

Post by iamdbtoo »

mepiethree wrote: post #206
iamdbtoo wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that's kind of how this country markets itself. Being able to afford a home and a family on a regular worker's pay is literally part of "The American Dream."

A home, yeah, not a home in downtown metros. My uncle is a teacher and owns two houses in rural Ohio with his wife, kid, and two dogs. Living the American dream.

Why not downtown metros? Would you prefer to have a poorer group of people who can't live near where they work?

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#457

Post by aerosmile »

hodgesrm wrote: post #436
aerosmile wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The American Dream is not about getting more for less, as in "most luxury for the least amount of effort." It's about having a shot at owning a business without the financial backing of a rich family [0], which is more like "most luxury for an insane amount of effort." [0] A lot of recent discussion centers on how many of the most successful US entrepreneurs come from privileged backgrounds, but you should not lose s…

The US is not a capitalist paradise. We moved a software company from the UK to a US Delaware Corp 2 years ago and it was a major headache involving substantial legal fees, accounting, employee benefits, and taxes. Texas interestingly has been the hardest to deal with--probably our biggest single accounting expense due to what seems to be antiquated tax management on their end. It was a lot easier doing business in t…

You're confusing accounting expenses and the cost of running a business. Even personal taxes are a pain the US.

So, yes, doing your own corporate taxes in the US is likely not a good idea, especially if you hire people across several states. But the cost of an accountant is a minuscule cost compared to paying X% more across your entire payroll (not to mention other aspects).

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#458

Post by Handytinge »

abxytg wrote: post #102
mrjangles wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>how modern work for a lot of jobs has become de facto indentured servitude...The average worker can't afford anything without taking on debt. For people from other countries wondering about the veracity of these claims, let's take an example: The typical shitty job everyone on here complains about is working at an amazon warehouse. This is a job people with no skills take on. They pay 15 USD an hour. In other curren…

Cynically untrue. Amazon is not even close to bottom of the barrel. And it's clear you haven't paid market rent in a major city since you bought that starter home back in the 90s - 42k is a joke when your rent is close to $2500 and you get no benefits.

Who is paying $2500 a month for rent on minimum wage?

In Australia (where that $43k is from), the median rent for a 2 bedroom unit is $436 a week - $1700 a month. Very affordable with housemates or a partner also on minimum wage. In cheaper suburbs or 1 bedroom units, this is cheaper again.

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