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Windows 11 Pro will soon require a Microsoft Account during initial setup

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Re: Windows 11 Pro will soon require a Microsoft Account during initial setup

#451
post #16
post #15

On the upside, when Windows 10 is no longer supported I run out of reasons not to go back to Windows 7 like I always wanted.

Here's one: Linux is better. A lot better. If you are worried about gaming or other apps, Win7 won't be much better than Linux (won't have latest DirectX or anything), and may end up far worse by then.

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Re: Windows 11 Pro will soon require a Microsoft Account during initial setup

#452

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> I use multiple non-admin profiles for different activities Well, shit me. I've not used Windows since 8 came out. However, I would have loved to have had that workflow for a multiple desktop type thing. Why didn't I think of that 20 years ago? (for a long time, windows has internally supported multiple desktops, but it's not quite the same)

I do the same thing on Linux. I have multiple different users I use for various purposes. One for Work, Personal, Side Business, and an emergency "break glass" user. I install most applications in my home XDG directory if possible. It helps me have pure separation between work and home life. If I'm on my personal user, I do not have access to work tools, etc.

If you're already going to these lengths to compartmentalize, you might as well just run Qubes. It's really not much more mental overhead.

Plus you get nice features like different color window borders for applications running in different profiles, properly permissioned inter-profile RPC, virtualized networking ('personal' gets networking from clearnet 'sys-firewall', 'work' gets networking from 'work-vpn', 'project1' gets networking over Tor from 'sys-whonix', etc.), and much, much more.

Re: Windows 11 Pro will soon require a Microsoft Account during initial setup

#453
post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Getting you an MS account is one small step away from charging you monthly for the privilege of using the computer that you've already paid for. That's already a thing - unfortunately - the only way to get Windows 10/11 Enterprise is via a subscription, though they're careful not to word it as such. There are three ways to get it: (1) you can either buy it through the volume license channel which requires an active…

> Windows will absolutely become a subscription service in the next few years. It already is, but the price is viewing ads and enduring "whoops, you're now using Microsoft Edge". They're just not yet ready to give up the many millions a year they get from system integrators buying Windows.

What happens when your account is overdrawn?

Well when the commitment was made for Windows 10 to be the final version of Windows I guess they were right in costly ways that weren't anticipated.

Windows 11 is turning out to be less & less of the kind of Windows people once knew & loved.

Power users may feel like it's completely hostile but it's overall just less to love for everyone.

Failing to live up to the Windows 10 commitment before it had a chance to decently stabilize, with all those resources, is a major failure but without the continued follow-through now you've got to figure there's going to be a different force at work if Windows is to be all it could be or even kept relevant in some ways.

And if the force starts to depend on direct licensing fees from everyone for it's survival, which haven't been in place for a while that's just screwing the pooch that much more.

With Windows 10 & 11 so far you need to be really sharp with the numbers to keep from getting the feeling that users are costing Microsoft money somehow. If that happens inherent pressure may arise naturally to reduce the number of users in response and the overall actions of the company could become unstoppable in this direction. Once underway, overall corporate momentum could tend downward uncontrollably with very little chance of a turn-around for an entire bureaucracy.

Even worse a small part of the bureaucracy could be getting new income that was not there and they could be rewarded for devising the system, this will push a further group of users away since anyone who doesn't like going from tolerable to intolerable will be in the same group.

There is some appearance of the Bureaucratic Failure Mode.

Re: Windows 11 Pro will soon require a Microsoft Account during initial setup

#454
post #441

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Which option does Fastmail fail on?

Just checked them out. Looks to me like they don't offer 'real' shared mailboxes (where every user authorized for the mailbox has the same view of the mailbox), just 'distribution lists' (in essence, forwarders). Consider the following scenario: Alice and Bob jointly manage a mailbox sales@acme.co. An email from a customer arrives and Alice replies to it. With a real shared mailbox, Bob should be able to see the e-ma…

No, you can definitely share mailboxes in Fastmail: https://www.fastmail.help/hc/en-us/articles/360060590733-Sha...

Re: Windows 11 Pro will soon require a Microsoft Account during initial setup

#455
post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s hard to beat windows native office. MacOS version stinks and the web version is pretty slow on complicated stuff. That’s why I use windows on my work PC ans WSL for the dev stuff.

> MacOS version stinks I have not tried it yet but was thinking I could need it one day; what particularly stinks about it?

They are two different animals. My old job had office documents to complex that windows vm with office performed better than native macOS.

Re: Windows 11 Pro will soon require a Microsoft Account during initial setup

#456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just checked them out. Looks to me like they don't offer 'real' shared mailboxes (where every user authorized for the mailbox has the same view of the mailbox), just 'distribution lists' (in essence, forwarders). Consider the following scenario: Alice and Bob jointly manage a mailbox sales@acme.co. An email from a customer arrives and Alice replies to it. With a real shared mailbox, Bob should be able to see the e-ma…

No, you can definitely share mailboxes in Fastmail: https://www.fastmail.help/hc/en-us/articles/360060590733-Sha...

Interesting. Can this be managed from an admin panel or would you have to log in to each mailbox individually to manage settings?

For comparison, here's the MS documentation: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/admin/email/c...

I'm a big proponent of open standards, so if anybody on HN knows e-mail providers that can sanely do this and store your data within the EU (Fastmail says they don't [1]), I'm definitely interested to hear about them. We would also have to find decent alternatives for other parts of MS365, though (file sharing and single sign-on (currently our users have different logins for various systems, causing them to write their passwords on sticky notes...)).

[1] https://www.fastmail.help/hc/en-us/articles/1500000280221#ph...

Re: Windows 11 Pro will soon require a Microsoft Account during initial setup

#457
post #421
post #97

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> for mac you can say this device doesn't connect to the internet. but as soon as you do it phones home. Yes, but to clarify the specific point, you still do not need an Apple account to use a Mac, even if it's phoning home.

I believe you need one to download apps though. for instance, I think the apps that come with the mac from the store don't reappear if you recover the OS unless you sign into the app store.

That might well be true. I only use the Mac App Store to download Xcode and update first-party software, so I'm not sure (and, at any rate, I'm signed in to an iCloud account, so I wouldn't know if that part doesn't work without one). I seem to recall non-logged-in ones having all the built-in software in the past, but it might not be true anymore.

Re: Windows 11 Pro will soon require a Microsoft Account during initial setup

#458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Photoshop CC 2018 runs great in Wine, with Wacom tablet support as well. For Illustrator, use CC 2019 to get hi-def display support in the GUI. I don’t use Illustrator much though, so I can’t vouch for how well it works.

This is good to know. I still need to figure out which distribution of Linux to try out first. Having the ability to use my wacom tablet across a variety of software is a must.

Ubuntu has a native wacom driver that just comes with the operating system. Just plug it in and find the Wacom Tablet panel in settings.

Re: Windows 11 Pro will soon require a Microsoft Account during initial setup

#459

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> and not an insignificant one. And it's all due to how Code is both open-source in spirit and in truth, and aren't beholden to silly sales targets. You can see what this sort of thing does to a project when the Visual Studio 2022 team tried to move `dotnet watch` HMR functionality to Visual Studio 2022[0] instead of leaving it in VS Code. 0: https://github.com/dotnet/sdk/pull/22217

VS Code isn't really FOSS, try using VSCodium.

VS Code binaries might be under a different license that governs auto update and telemetry, but the code for all of VS Code itself is OSS. VSCodium is explicitly just a build of VS Code without any MS extras, and it's a stark difference from licensing the code so that there's zero competition in hosting the product as a managed service.

Re: Windows 11 Pro will soon require a Microsoft Account during initial setup

#460
post #410
post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of my work life has been focused on Microsoft products, so I've been using Windows for a long time as my primary OS. I upgraded to Windows 11 as soon as I could and despite me creating a local account initially, I then linked it to a Microsoft Account which has caused me no end of pain. There have been lots of other niggly issues with Windows 11 that I've been living with, e.g. I prefer having my taskbar on the…

You might want to try WinApps or something similar to run your MS Office in Linux. I haven't try it myself, but it seems a nice way to run Windows apps in Linux.

Thanks for the tip about WinApps. Looks like it might work for me but will try it out to confirm.
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